A blast from the past.

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A blast from the past.

Postby Silesius » Wed May 31, 2017 6:50 am

I'm interested in hearing various Thelemic responses to this piece. :booze:

This excerpt is from "God and Dr. Einstein" by Dr. Ernest Holmes, as heard on his "This Thing Called Life" radio show on Sunday, May 21, 1950. This content is in the public domain.

After many years of patient work, Dr. Albert Einstein feels that he has found one law governing all physical phenomena. If so, it is one of the greatest and most important discoveries of all time. But what has this to do with our subject - with This Thing Called Life or with the possibility of using a Power of good greater than you are? Well, let's see what we can figure out.

Is it any different to say that there is one law governing all physical phenomena, or to say with [Ralph Waldo] Emerson, "There is one mind common to all individual men"? The universe is a spiritual system. It is a manifestation of Divine Intelligence. Another world-famed scientist has said that we can think of the universe in the terms of intelligence acting as law, which means mind in action. And another scientist has said that we can think of the universe in the terms of an infinite thinker thinking mathematically, which means that faith acts as a law, and this is why prayer can be answered.

Here is another remarkable thing: Dr. Einstein has also said that time, space and light curve back upon themselves. This means that everything moves in circles. It explains what Jesus meant when he said, "Give and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom."

It also explains another saying of Jesus when he said that they that take up the sword shall perish by it. It really means that what goes out will again return; that the inner action of our minds decides what is going to happen to us, for "as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he."

I would like for us to consider one more of Dr. Einstein's propositions, in which he states that energy, which is invisible, and mass, which means physical form, are equal, identical and interchangeable. Is this any different from one of the initial statements of the Bible where it says, "In the beginning was the Word," and where it tells us that the thought of God becomes form? What we see comes out of what we do not see.

The invisible becomes visible through a law of mind. This is what is back of psychosomatic medicine. Thoughts are things in that mental states produce definite results. This is why we meditate, pray and affirm the presence of good in our lives.

The cause of everything is hidden. What we experience outwardly is a result of silent but intelligent forces that operate on the invisible side of life. Another great scientist, Dr. Gustaf Stromberg, said in his boo, "The Soul of the Universe," that there is an invisible pattern for everything in the visible world.

This is no different from the Bible statement that the invisible things of God are made manifest by the visible. Everything, including our own being, is rooted in and draws its life from an invisible source. Is this any different from St. Paul's statement that there are bodies celestial and bodies terrestrial; there is a spiritual body as well as a physical body?

It is wonderful that so many scientists are giving us a faith in the spiritual universe - a faith which we have already had through intuition, but which now is coming clearer and clearer into the mind's eye. Wouldn't it be strange if we should discover that the Bible is not only a book of spiritual inspiration, but that it also lays a spiritual foundation for many of the recent discoveries of science?

If there is one law governing all physical phenomena, then there must be one law of mind governing all mental action. And if time, space and light bend back upon themselves, then our thought will return to us. This is why Emerson said, "If you want a friend, be a friend."

And this is why Jesus said if you want something good to happen, accept that it is happening, which implies that there is a law that brings back to you a direct result of your thinking. Did He not say, "When ye pray, believe that ye have"?

Science also teaches us this very important fact: Nature wills ill against on one. The laws of God are for us and not against us. It is our use of them that produces pain instead of pleasure. When we learn to live in harmony with them, they will become our servant instead of our master. This means that many of the laws we have been using destructively can as easily be used constructively. Often our bondage is a misuse of freedom, just as much of the world today has used its freedom to destroy its liberty.

To realize this is a step toward freedom and will have a direct bearing upon our health, our happiness and our success. For we shall no longer feel that we are fighting a power opposed to good, but rather that we are using a good power in a wrong way. We shall know that we have an ally with us, an unconquerable power of good and an irresistible law of love.
"I am like God and God like me. I am as large as God. He is as small as I. He can not above me, nor I beneath Him, be."
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby Hermitas » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:38 am

I have a hard time with it.

It's not that I disagree with the Mental worldview. I agree with that.

It's all the non sequitur: "And another scientist has said that we can think of the universe in the terms of an infinite thinker thinking mathematically, which means that faith acts as a law, and this is why prayer can be answered."

Somebody said [something], which is the same as saying [this], which means [this other thing]. Isn't that the same thing as [this]? And that's the same things as [this].

I keep having to stop an analyze individual sentences because the logic connecting his ideas is so loose.

Bottom line: I tend to agree with his conclusion, but that's beside the point of being frustrated with how he thinks you can get there logically.
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby Silesius » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:52 pm

I definitely can relate to your opinion. The author seems to make some leaping assumptions while delivering his message. There is also a marked randomness and even almost an underlying personal "agenda" lurking in the background of his loose logic (I love how you put that). It was composed in 1950 and, stereotypical of that era, even "learned men" seem to have been on the low end of the enlightened spectrum.

One thing that caught my eye, and I'm feeling like it was more me reaching than it actually being there, was the use of keywords like "love" and "law" used in conjunction with the message of individual responsibility/personal empowerment. The fact that the guy linked those qualities (albeit vaguely) with the power of intention through "universal mind" and imagination seems somewhat unique for that time and place (USA). Does that not seem akin to magick? The whole attempt at marrying science and religious theory for that time is interesting as well. The method of science, the aim of religion. Not nearly as ahead of his time as Crowley, obviously, but who else was chewing on ideas like these in the 1940s?

I don't know, just kind of struck me as illuminating for its antiquated time.
"I am like God and God like me. I am as large as God. He is as small as I. He can not above me, nor I beneath Him, be."
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby Hermitas » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:39 pm

Earnest Holmes actually wrote a book called "Love and Law."

Look here on Amazon and use the "Look Inside" feature. It may as well be a book on magick. It's on my "one day I may get past the first few pages" reading list. Something about it... something about it turns me off though. I'm not sure what. Maybe I'll try again.

What is it...? Intensely dogmatic? Something.

Anyway,

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Law-Unpubli ... 1585423025
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby Hermitas » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:41 am

Here. Let me not miss the point.

I've wondered the same thing about him. But I just can't get into him far enough to develop a more informed opinion.
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby Silesius » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:15 pm

I read you loud and clear. The guy is definitely one of the dinosaurs of the Christian Science/New Thought genre (hovering somewhere in the murky shadowy outskirts, not entirely committed to any of the predecessors necessarily but more focused on his own brand/interpretation of that stuff). I get a similar feeling about him and his style probably mostly because he seems to enjoy the liberal use of "Jesus quotes". He's also the quintessential not-so-subtle representation of a stale misconceived archetype: the Elderly, White, Male, Father-God, which is powerfully attractive to most of the blindly obedient troglodyte masses.

I guess that's partly why I get stuck on the guy so often. No, not because I'm a blindly obedient troglodyte. Nice try! How in the f#@k does someone like that get tuned in to a current anywhere close to anything resembling the understanding of "Love and Law"? He seems annoyingly positive (the trappings of his probable fundamentalist Christian upbringing) and very "Kumbaya! There is no such thing as evil but I still promote dualism" regularly and that really grinds my gears. At the same time he speaks about Universal Mind, First Cause, Love and Law, and describes magical technique in a shockingly accurate way. Granted, one has to filter out the cotton candy clouds and unicorn dander with which he sprinkles his work in order to recognize this point. I don't know much about his personal life but I doubt that he was doing chakra work, meditating, learning Hebrew, Greek or Latin or any of the other practical disciplined methods we employ on our path either. So, I find myself wondering: (1) Where this enlightenment came from (2) What made him so confident in his understanding of his newly conceived philosophy and (3) Why he and his work are still successfully snaring a sizeable amount of followers.
"I am like God and God like me. I am as large as God. He is as small as I. He can not above me, nor I beneath Him, be."
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby seekinghga » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:55 pm

Silesius wrote:I'm interested in hearing various Thelemic responses to this piece.

It's just concepts; baubles of the Ruach.

God is the stillness of the sum of all motion. Look at a busy highway from a distance away sometime. You can either see all of the individual cars moving their own way, or you can intuit that the action of every one of the cars as a whole is flowing in some singular idea called "traffic." An echo in symbol...? :P Now I'm being silly!
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby Takamba » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:31 am

Silesius wrote:I read you loud and clear. The guy is definitely one of the dinosaurs of the Christian Science/New Thought genre (hovering somewhere in the murky shadowy outskirts, not entirely committed to any of the predecessors necessarily but more focused on his own brand/interpretation of that stuff). I get a similar feeling about him and his style probably mostly because he seems to enjoy the liberal use of "Jesus quotes". He's also the quintessential not-so-subtle representation of a stale misconceived archetype: the Elderly, White, Male, Father-God, which is powerfully attractive to most of the blindly obedient troglodyte masses.

I guess that's partly why I get stuck on the guy so often. No, not because I'm a blindly obedient troglodyte. Nice try! How in the f#@k does someone like that get tuned in to a current anywhere close to anything resembling the understanding of "Love and Law"? He seems annoyingly positive (the trappings of his probable fundamentalist Christian upbringing) and very "Kumbaya! There is no such thing as evil but I still promote dualism" regularly and that really grinds my gears. At the same time he speaks about Universal Mind, First Cause, Love and Law, and describes magical technique in a shockingly accurate way. Granted, one has to filter out the cotton candy clouds and unicorn dander with which he sprinkles his work in order to recognize this point. I don't know much about his personal life but I doubt that he was doing chakra work, meditating, learning Hebrew, Greek or Latin or any of the other practical disciplined methods we employ on our path either. So, I find myself wondering: (1) Where this enlightenment came from (2) What made him so confident in his understanding of his newly conceived philosophy and (3) Why he and his work are still successfully snaring a sizeable amount of followers.



The answer to these cynic-styled questions lies in The Book of Revelations (for one source among many) and your own rending of the seals of your own being on this plane. In other words, as you evolve, your vitriol on these subjects and *that man's* "annoyingly positive" "trappings" will be more loving.

Come back in five years and read your posts on this matter. You'll see what I mean.

Also, as has been alluded to by others, the material in question is the writing of a mind on the cusp of one aeon to the next aeon, blending with the age as well; an we aren't fully immersed in the aeon of Horus yet (otherwise, why would this be more than an anachronistic topic?), it still holds "sway" because it's going to take time to get more of the masses in line with the current.
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby Silesius » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:05 pm

Interesting take on my previous reply to another member's response, Takamba. I'd like to use your post as an exercise in understanding myself better, if you would be so kind as to help.

My initial gut reaction was that you seemed to be somewhat self-righteous. I laid it on pretty thick with the sarcasm (or cynicism, depending on one's interpretation) in the comments you quoted. So that was fairly obvious. This has been "my style" for years (for better or for worse). It was more writing for fun than an honest demonstration of my deep personal feelings but you seem to have a penetrating insight into things. I find that very interesting.

It would help a novice like me much more if you didn't talk in cryptic riddles. "Rending of the seals of your own being on this plane" means very little to me. Sounds very mystical, no doubt, but what exactly are you trying to say? Also, can you share something more specific than "The Book of Revelations"? What exactly in that book do you find contains "The answers to these cynic style questions..."? When it serves no practical purpose, the habit of creating unnecessary "veils" seems to be a self-indulgent act of pomposity (especially with regard to a trivial post on a general discussion forum). Is that an act of love? Maybe I'll think about this differently in 5 years?

Its ironic that you characterized the underlying attitude of my writing as vitriolic. The last time I was an active member on this forum and in certain associated organizations my username was V.I.T.R.I.O.L.[266]. I've always been drawn to vitriol in all its forms. Correct me if I'm wrong but I got the impression that you were saying it is "bad" to be critical, cynical or sarcastic and that once I was sufficiently developed I would have a kind of change of heart and automatically become more loving of everything and everyone in general. I find that idealistic and misinformed. The visible head of an organization of which I am an active member once told me that getting everyone to agree on things, get along and share the same feelings about things is absolutely not the goal of Thelema. I paraphrased, of course. To me, Thelema always seemed to be more of a proponent of individualism and not interfering with others doing what they wilt.
"I am like God and God like me. I am as large as God. He is as small as I. He can not above me, nor I beneath Him, be."
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby Hermitas » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:37 pm

It's not me.

Leave me alone.
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby seekinghga » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:25 am

Hermitas wrote:alone.

That's an interesting word. Compare it to the concept of "Hermit" in Liber Legis. Also, think about your word in connection with what samadhi is. The Fool, Atu O, is also indicative, and Silence. Omnipresence and infinity are suggestive as well; aloneness is also togetherness of all in one and none--if something is infinite then what else can be with it to keep it company? Sorry, I'm a tangent climber sometimes (i.e. "always")...
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: A blast from the past.

Postby seekinghga » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:42 am

So I went into Alinda yesterday. I happened to look in her one ear and I could see clear through to the other side of her pretty head and beyond. But that's not the reason why one goes into Alinda anyways.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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