Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

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Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby AliceKnewIt » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:29 am

Really important to fight this - don't let them take over!

Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

"There’s a war going on in the American Pagan community. On one side are racists who see gods like Odin and Thor as an embodiment of the supremacy whites have over the rest of the planet. On the other are the practitioners who believe these gods transcend racial lines and belong to everyone. Recently, the contention between these two groups has reached a tipping point as anti-racist Pagans try to claim the narrative around their faith before it is overtaken by alt-right racists."

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/59kq ... r-paganism
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:55 am

Think what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

unless it's not what I will you to think

I think
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:43 pm

Remember, if you believe in master race and would like to advocate for a fascist, white supremacist nation, you're just expressing an opinion. Freedom of speech.

But if you want to call people who choose to believe in a master race and advocate for fascism and white supremacy (****)-eating gibbons and ridicule their dumb ideas, you're interfering with someone's will.

That's stupid.

But maybe I'm not expressing myself clearly.

I think white supremacists should be: rounded up in concentration camps, deported, subjected to discriminatory housing laws, segregated from polite society, paid at lower rates than other people, etc. Is that better??? Now will you defend my freedom of thought?

:booze:

*Note: I don't actually believe we should commit "genocide" against white supremacists. But if they get freedom of speech and thought, so do the rest of us. And we are perfectly entitled to ridicule and shame. It doesn't interfere with a persons right to do their will.

All fools despise

If he be a King, thou canst not hurt him.

Seriously though, it's like loser LARPers can't help picking loser teams to roleplay. Confederacy? Sure let's pretend that was awesome. Nazis? Sure, let's pretend that the art school reject who couldn't stop farting or amphetamine fidgeting, whose thousand-year reich lasted 5 years, who killed 17 million people because he was so dumb he thought white supremacy was actually true, a guy who thought it was clever to invade Russia *in the winter*, a guy who shot himself the day after his wedding and had his stupid body burned--yeah, that looks like a hero.

Seriously, though, Takamba, I admire your ability to generally despise stupidity, but then suddenly think that people who follow that guy have a legitimate, defensible view. :lol:

Maybe I should try to revive the ideas of Larry the Caveman who believed that horse turds were the elixir of life, and that all other food was poison. Am I interfering in his will to call Larry a moron and rejoice in his demise?

How about flat-earthers? Am I allowed to make fun of them?
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:54 pm

Ah Av, again I see a certain focus on some detail (or lack therefore) to miss the actual point.

Threads don't do things, threads are done unto or with. In this thread it was opened a call to war. It was opened that a fight was required. It was even opened that an "or else" might be the stakes.

Racists have been in paganism since....

well...

what was before paganism?

This is what makes me so sad that MWT is no longer published (it's probably a coupe why it isn't, but that would take a lot of assumption and accusation on my part to discuss).

I'll use my own words instead of relying on any authority on the subject of occultism and Thelemic philosophy. All game has a right to exist, it will survive by its own merit alone and that is all we need to determine thus.

Now go do all the Liber OZ debates. That's perfectly fine if you don't see it (yet). I'm hopeful you will.

Meanwhile, the mundane world and pretending occult affiliated types are going to go about destroying themselves just like the mythical Atlantis is described as being destroyed because everyone was given equal power to attain their intentions and viola, no learned wisdom to prevent them. All these different battles of will, you can count me out for I know they will not survive. Why get inside their explosions with them?
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:49 am

Takamba wrote:Ah Av, again I see a certain focus on some detail (or lack therefore) to miss the actual point.

There is no such thing as *the* point. There are points. I didn't miss your point. I just have different ones.

Now, perhaps you have reached a level of attainment that allows you to be "above" all these petty issues of human war and genocide. I haven't. I'm here on earth with a vested interest in such matters. I will mock racists and fascists, and I will mock people who claim to be neutral and above it, while posting on internet forums.

Pseudo-neutrality is an act of deep cowardice.

All these different battles of will, you can count me out

So stop posting on these threads, if it's your will.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:11 pm

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:I will mock racists and fascists, and I will mock people who claim to be neutral and above it, while posting on internet forums.

Pseudo-neutrality is an act of deep cowardice.



AliceKnewIt wrote:Really important to fight this - don't let them take over!

Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism



Liber AL wrote:
Hear me, ye people of sighing!
The sorrows of pain and regret
Are left to the dead and the dying,
The folk that not know me as yet.
These are dead, these fellows; they feel not. We are not for the poor and sad: the lords of the earth are our kinsfolk.

Is a God to live in a dog? No! but the highest are of us. They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

Beauty and strength, leaping laughter and delicious languor, force and fire, are of us.

We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world. Think not, o king, upon that lie: That Thou Must Die: verily thou shalt not die, but live. Now let it be understood: If the body of the King dissolve, he shall remain in pure ecstasy for ever. Nuit! Hadit! Ra-Hoor-Khuit! The Sun, Strength & Sight, Light; these are for the servants of the Star & the Snake.

I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.

I am alone: there is no God where I am.



Liber OZ wrote:There is no god but man.

Man has the right to live by his own law—
to live in the way that he wills to do:
to work as he will:
to play as he will:
to rest as he will:
to die when and how he will.

Man has the right to eat what he will:
to drink what he will:
to dwell where he will:
to move as he will on the face of the earth.

Man has the right to think what he will:
to speak what he will:
to write what he will:
to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will:
to dress as he will.

Man has the right to love as he will:—
“take your fill and will of love as ye will,
when, where, and with whom ye will.” —AL. I. 51.

Man has the right to kill those who would thwart
these rights.

“the slaves shall serve.”


"Thou hast no right but to do thy will."
Therefore, I need not fight this fight, I need only fight those who oppose the Law of Will. Now, I'm not supporting racism, and the argument that "if you aren't against it, you must be for it" is poppycock (otherwise then Crowley would be a Hitler supporter).

Some things need to be, no matter how ugly you perceive them. Then they aren't meant for you to perceive, or you aren't meant for just sitting here debating it with me. Do Thy Will. (whatever that may be)
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:20 pm

the argument that "if you aren't against it, you must be for it" is poppycock

That's not my argument. My argument is that people who spend way more energy criticizing anti-fascism than fascism are not neutral. You aren't neutral.

Some things need to be, no matter how ugly you perceive them.

So stop trying to interfere with my anti-fascism.

Is your argument really that racism needs to exist, but anti-racism doesn't? Are you that clueless?
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:16 am

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:
the argument that "if you aren't against it, you must be for it" is poppycock

That's not my argument. My argument is that people who spend way more energy criticizing anti-fascism than fascism are not neutral. You aren't neutral.

Some things need to be, no matter how ugly you perceive them.

So stop trying to interfere with my anti-fascism.

Is your argument really that racism needs to exist, but anti-racism doesn't? Are you that clueless?



Point me in one direction where I ever told you what to do or not do (unless you are among those pointing to people and telling them what to do, like requiring that I get up and fight a fight).

My argument is that the people of pain and regret and resentments will fall on their own. The same way you need a bloody nose to stop you from picking at it, we need to witness these things to find the correction. And it isn't in the department of corrections or through bashings with picket signs and slammy chants that it gets corrected. "It's all about the child" said Rose Edith-Crowley. Take care of your own.

So tell me, where have I said you cannot think as you will? Feel free. Love them or hate them, but the fact that you call 'em a "them" separate for "us" (oh, and which one is PINK?) tells me more than you know.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:02 am

Takamba wrote:Point me in one direction where I ever told you what to do or not do (unless you are among those pointing to people and telling them what to do, like requiring that I get up and fight a fight).

You mean like in the same post, when you tell me, "Take care of your own"? :roll:

Nevertheless, you telling me what to do isn't interfering with my will, because you're not the boss of me. And me shaming you for fighting anti-racists instead of racists isn't "requiring" you to do anything, or interfering with your will, no matter how much you whine about it.

You have a right to say that racism is necessary, I have a right to say that's a shameful thing to say, you have a right to whine about it, Jim has a right to ban us if we don't follow his rules here, etc. A right doesn't mean that we are immune from criticism or consequences for how we use our rights.

the fact that you call 'em a "them" separate for "us" (oh, and which one is PINK?) tells me more than you know.

I've used the word "them" once in this thread (in reference to flat-earthers).

One of the other uses is from your quote of the book of the law. "We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery."

I think the fact that you think my "them" tells you more than I know tells me more than I know. :booze:

My argument is that the people of pain and regret and resentments will fall on their own.

I know. I disagree. The passage you quote says to "stamp down the wretched & the weak." It says they are outcast and unfit. An outcast has to have been cast out. (I disagree with this general interpretation of the passage, but I'm pointing out that with your framing, your argument is inconsistent).

In simple terms:

If you see a racist saying racist things and say, "free speech" and then you see an anti-racist saying anti-racist and say, "freedom hating, mommy-loving, misguided liberal!" then congratulations, you support racism. Let me be clearer:

You, Takamba, support racism.

I think that's shameful
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:35 am

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:In simple terms:

If you see a racist saying racist things and say, "free speech" and then you see an anti-racist saying anti-racist and say, "freedom hating, mommy-loving, misguided liberal!" then congratulations, you support racism. Let me be clearer:

You, Takamba, support racism.

I think that's shameful


Have you read the article that the OP links to? The people portrayed in it are racists, they are racists because it is assumed they think their race is superior to all others (some may have said so in public ways, the article didn't specify). It describes these racists as wanting to keep their gene pool clean, their way of life equally valued along with the African American "culture" protections in our society. Nothing in that article told me they are hunting people, beating people, or doing anything illegal. They could, I agree, be doing those things. They could, I agree, decide to do those things even if they never had before (please find them guilty of all their future crimes!). But they haven't. They haven't said they don't want people of other races to exist, they have simply said (in that article) that they want their race and culture to be protected TOO. Well, in a "multi-cultural" society, I think that's fair. If faerie wiccans can worship fairies, and tout homosexuality on the streets during Pride day, then why can't a non-hip-hop loving straight (CIS? SIS? However you spell it, he's hated already by now) white man have his day of pride?

To not deny them their individual rights is not the same as to support them.
Social Justice Warriors (so-called in modern parlance) on the other hand want to dictate. These warriors insist on not only having their way (call me hur, not him, you cad), but inflicting pain and shame on others.

Thanks for believing I'm a racist. Do you know the race of my ancestors? They weren't all white. My paternal grandparents aren't even from this continent, my paternal great grandfather wasn't even from *that* continent also. My paternal great grandmother is my only ancestor whose blood-line in North America is older than the European colonies on this continent. I'm aware also that not only do you harbor this false belief, you don't believe or agree with many things within the Thelemic teachings. Interesting. How do you agree with so much else about it?

Here's something for you to disagree with. The last three paragraphs are the most important to it.

Crowley, in his most aged wisdom on record wrote:
MAGICK WITHOUT TEARS
By Aleister Crowley

Chapter LXXIII: "Monsters", Niggers, Jews, etc.

Cara Soror,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Come now, is this quite fair? When I agreed to tip you off about Magick and the rest, I certainly never expected to be treated as if I were being interviewed by an American Sunday Newspaper. What do I prefer for breakfast, and my views on the future of the theatre, and is the Great White Brotherhood in favour of Eugenic Babies? No, dear sister—I nearly said sob-sister. But this I will say, you have been very artful, and led me on very cleverly—you must have been a terror to young men—for the matter of that, I dare say you are still!

And I don't see how to get out of swallowing this last sly bait; as you say, “Every man and every woman is a star.” does need some attention to the definition of “man” and “woman.” What is the position, you say, of “monsters”? And men of “inferior” races, like the Veddah, Hottentot and the Australian Blackfellow? There must be a line somewhere, and will I please draw it? You make me feel like Giotto!

There is one remark which I must make at the beginning. It's some poet or other, Tennyson or Kipling, I think (I forget who) that wrote: “Folks in the loomp, is baad.” It is true all round. Someone wisely took note that the vilest man alive had always found someone to love him. Remember the monster that Sir Frederick Treves picked up from an East End peep-show, and had petted by princesses? (What a cunning trick!) Revolting, all the same, to read his account of it. He—the monster, not Treves!—seems to have been a most charming individual—ah! That's the word we want. Every individual has some qualities that endear him to some other. And per contra, I doubt if there is any class which is not detestable to some other class. Artists, police, the clergy, “reds,” foxhunters, Freemasons, Jews, “heaven-born,” women's clubwomen (especially in U.S.A.), “Methodys,” golfers, dog-lovers; you can't find one body without its “natural” enemies. It's right, what's worse; every class, as a class, is almost sure to have more defects than qualities.“ As soon as you put men together, they somehow sink, corporatively, below the level of the worst of the individuals composing it. Collect scholars on a club committee, or men of science on a jury; all their virtues vanish, and their vices pop out, reinforced by the self-confidence which the power of numbers is bound to bestow.

It is peculiarly noticeable that when a class is a ruling minority, it acquires a detestation as well as a contempt for the surrounding “mob.” In the Northern States of U.S.A., where the whites are overwhelming in number, the “nigger” can be more or less a “regular fellow;” in the South, where fear is a factor, Lynch Law prevails. (Should it? The reason for “NO” is that it is a confession of weakness.) But in the North, there is a very strong feeling about certain other classes: the Irish, the Italians, the Jews. Why? Fear again; the Irish in politics, the Italians in crime, the Jews in finance. But none of these phobias prevent friendship between individuals of hostile classes.

I think that perhaps I have already written enough—at least enough to start you thinking on the right lines. And mark well this! The submergence of the individual in his class means the end of all true human relations between men. Socialism means war. When the class moves as a class, there can be no exceptions.

This is no original thought of mine; Stalin and Hitler both saw it crystal-clear; both, the one adroitly, the other clumsily, but with equally consummate hypocrisy, acted it out. They picked individuals to rule under their autocracy, killed off those that wouldn't fit, destroyed the power of the Trades Unions or Soviets while pretending to make them powerful and prosperous, and settled down to the serious business of preparing for the war which both knew to be inevitable.

It is this fundamental fact which ensures that every democracy shall end with an upstart autocrat; the stability of peace depends upon the original idea which aggrandized America in a century from four millions to a hundred: extreme individualism with opportunity. Our own longest period of peace abroad (bar frontier skirmishes like the Crimean war) and prosperity at home coincided with Free Trade and Laissez-faire.

Now we may return, refreshed, to the main question of monsters, real (like Treves') or imaginary like Jews and niggers.

'Arf a mo! Haven't we solved the problem, ambulando? Everything would be okydoke and hunkydory if only we can prevent classes from acting as such?

I suppose so. Then, what about a spot of pithy paradox for a change?

Why should the classes want to act as classes? It's obvious; “Union is strength.” The worst Fifteen can do more with a football than the best opposing team of one—excuse my Irish!

Well, what tortoise is that elephant based upon? Why, still obviously, upon the universal sense of individual weakness. We all want a big bruvver to tell of him! Hence the Gods and the Classes. It's fear at the base of the whole pyramid of skulls.

How right politicians are to look upon their constituents as cattle! Anyone who has any experience of dealing with any class as such knows the futility of appealing to intelligence, indeed to any other qualities than those of brutes.

And so, whenever we find one Man who has no fear like Ibsen's Doctor Stockmann or Mark Twain's Colonel Grainger that strolled out on his balcony with his shotgun to face the mob that had come to lynch him, he can get away with it. “An Enemy of the People” wrote Ibsen, “Ye are against the people, O my chosen!” says The Book of the Law. (AL II, 25).

Not only does it seem to me the only conceivable way of reconciling this and similar passages with “Every man and every woman is a star.” to assert the sovereignty of the individual, and to deny the right-to-exist to “class-consciousness,” “crowd-psychology,” and so to mob-rule and Lynch-Law, but also the only practicable plan whereby we may each one of us settle down peaceably to mind his own business, to pursue his True Will, and to accomplish the Great Work.

So never lose sight for a moment of the maxim so often repeated in one context or another in these letters: that fear is at the root of every possibility of trouble, and that “Fear is failure, and the forerunner of failure. Be thou therefore without fear; for in the heart of the coward virtue abideth not.”


Love is the law, love under will.

Yours fraternally,

666


re Racists who want their way of life recognized, self-segregated (just as much as blacks in school cafeterias naturally self-segregate), and equally protected, vs social-justice warriors who not only wish for some of those same things themselves but want to penalize anyone who doesn't use the correct pronoun for them, who doesn't openly support them, and a host of other "injustices" corrected by legal decree and punishments, which one is saying "I want my freedom" vs "I want you to stop doing what you do?" Which of those "desires" is "more thelemic?"
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:31 pm

So white racists are ok because they would *never* do anything to hurt people of other races? You say the darndest things, Takamba! :lol:

(By the way, I absolutely support the right of white separatists to self-segregate and live in peace. They just need to find a place that wasn't built and populated by non-whites. Maybe they can build an island somewhere in the South Pacific and dung it about.)

BONUS ROUND:

Why can't white people have a pride day? THEY ALREADY FUCKING CAN!!! :roll:

NEWS FLASH to anyone: Nazis are 100% allowed to hold pride marches. Did you see any of them get arrested for marching in Charlottesville?

Please, continue to whine about decline in white supremacy, if it be thy will. Please, continue to say I'm less of a thelemite because I trash-talk racists and white supremacists, and their cowardly, hypocritical sympathizers. I'd rather be labeled a "bad" thelemite by a racist sympathizer than be a racist sympathizer any day. :lol:
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby mark0987 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:20 am

The fact of the matter is that if you believe someone is lesser than you due to their sexuality, race, gender (any fact of their being they cannot control) then you are not living in line with the philosophy that "Every Man and every Woman is a Star".

A Jewish star shines as bright as every other star in the body of Nuit. A black star also does- it was also a decent Bowie album!
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:20 am

mark0987 wrote:The fact of the matter is that if you believe someone is lesser than you due to their sexuality, race, gender (any fact of their being they cannot control) then you are not living in line with the philosophy that "Every Man and every Woman is a Star".

A Jewish star shines as bright as every other star in the body of Nuit. A black star also does- it was also a decent Bowie album!


This person possibly "gets it," especially if he allows in his Understanding that children need to make mistakes in order to learn. Erudition does not give one evolution, it merely gives on an opinion.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:21 am

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:So white racists are ok because they would *never* do anything to hurt people of other races? You say the darndest things, Takamba! :lol:

(By the way, I absolutely support the right of white separatists to self-segregate and live in peace. They just need to find a place that wasn't built and populated by non-whites. Maybe they can build an island somewhere in the South Pacific and dung it about.)

BONUS ROUND:

Why can't white people have a pride day? THEY ALREADY FUCKING CAN!!! :roll:

NEWS FLASH to anyone: Nazis are 100% allowed to hold pride marches. Did you see any of them get arrested for marching in Charlottesville?

Please, continue to whine about decline in white supremacy, if it be thy will. Please, continue to say I'm less of a thelemite because I trash-talk racists and white supremacists, and their cowardly, hypocritical sympathizers. I'd rather be labeled a "bad" thelemite by a racist sympathizer than be a racist sympathizer any day. :lol:



Putting words in my mouth and then arguing against those. Good on you, there's a name for that.


This evidence quoted speaks for itself. Nowhere have I made any of those above arguments, only stated the right to allow others to make those arguments. Your ego is in the way (elephant trumpet sounds).
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:38 am

Yes, you have.

When people criticize racists it's

inflicting pain and shame on others.


When racists argue

why can't a non-hip-hop loving straight (CIS? SIS? However you spell it, he's hated already by now) white man have his day of pride?


You say:

I think that's fair


You don't ever say that racists are "inflicting pain and shame on others" for claiming that other races are inferior.

That's biased, and favoring racism.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:05 am

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:Yes, you have.

When people criticize racists it's

inflicting pain and shame on others.


When racists argue

why can't a non-hip-hop loving straight (CIS? SIS? However you spell it, he's hated already by now) white man have his day of pride?


You say:

I think that's fair


You don't ever say that racists are "inflicting pain and shame on others" for claiming that other races are inferior.

That's biased, and favoring racism.


I am now absolutely convinced that you do not read things. You react to things, but I do not believe you read what you react to.

This I have said: "Nothing in that article told me they are hunting people, beating people, or doing anything illegal. They could, I agree, be doing those things. They could, I agree, decide to do those things even if they never had before (please find them guilty of all their future crimes!). But they haven't."

Now, to comprehend it for you, it means I agree that there are those who qualify as violent et al, but those aren't the one's named and shamed in that article. Those named and shamed are not the ones known to commit violence. I know pagans who aren't racist, who are alt-lifestyle, alt-sexuality, and pot smokers. And they are violent in their protests of things! Yep. They exist. Should I now hate all pagans? Or just the politically incorrect ones?

My fight isn't against an individual ever. If I'm spouting how absurd a leftist is in their desire to dictate to me, I'm spouting against tyranny, not your individual desire to help others. If a racist is spouting that he doesn't want to live next to a nigger or a jew, he's just spouting. If he gets violent, he's a criminal. That's a different beast altogether (just like those leftist criminals, who throw paint on personal property that belongs to others, are different than Joan Baez, who merely sings and spouts).

Now. Since I'm of the belief that you do not read, I will no longer bother to write for you.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:24 pm

In my opinion, a racist spouting racist things in a place like the US where the people have decided it generally falls under free speech still deserves to be criticized for disrespecting his fellow human in such a hateful small way.

I hope racism is something that we as a species will move away from. I'm not sure why that provokes such hostility.

You're accusing me of trying to silence free speech and thwart wills and prosecute people for thought crime. I didn't do any of those things. Sounds like paranoia and projection.

If you have a right to use racial slurs I have an equal right to criticize you and question your character. Fair is fair.

If you're saying that when I say racists should be ashamed of themselves, it's tyranny, then I'm going to say that using racial slurs is tyranny. Fair is fair.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Q789 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:42 pm

Socialism has come to paganism.

Claiming any opposing view as 'racist' 'misogynist' 'hater' 'bigot'. Trying to shut down any political speech they don't like.

I remind you of the cornerstone of fascism.......TO SHUT DOWN FREE SPEECH.

HHmmm interesting observation. Our socialist left is trying to shut down conservative speech.

Now what conclusions can I draw from that?
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:01 am

Now what conclusions can I draw from that?

That you don't know what you're talking about.

ONCE MORE FOR THOSE IN BACK: Free speech includes criticizing people for free speech.

If you think you should get to call someone a racial slur, but others shouldn't be allowed to call you a {*******} racist, I'd say it's pretty clear who the fascist is.

Now, feel free to resort to such other eye-roll-worthy gems that other people in these invariably devolve into, such as:
-Use racial slurs when you get mad for being "falsely" accused of being biased in favor of racists
-Whine about "non-violent" white separatists getting lumped in unfairly with violent white separatists ("how dare you make a sweeping generalization about a whole group of people!" :lol:)

It's almost not fun for me anymore, how tired and predictable the nonsense is.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Hermitas » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:42 am

I mean, this doesn’t end with either of you agreeing with the other.

So, once the case has been well made.... the readers either see it or they don’t.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby AliceKnewIt » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:45 am

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:
ONCE MORE FOR THOSE IN BACK: Free speech includes criticizing people for free speech.

If you think you should get to call someone a racial slur, but others shouldn't be allowed to call you a {*******} racist, I'd say it's pretty clear who the fascist is.



Thank you so much.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:55 am

"And, just maybe, whatever happened at the Philadelphia Starbucks was necessary to shine more light on it."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/16/opinions ... 13PMVODtop
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:29 pm

Sure, in the sense that two people who failed to resolve a difference and let it get to the point of a physical altercation might say that it took a fist-fight to finally get them to resolve their issue.

It doesn't follow that fistfights are necessary to resolve differences.

Also from the article:
And yet, let's consider the (relatively) good news here: The scrutiny -- and, to a great degree, level of outrage -- on the part of white people toward such incidents. Whites called Starbucks out on the arrest and are among those holding the corporation accountable for it.


I don't think the writer is calling for more incidents as a necessary thing to shine the light on discrimination. I think it's safe to say the opposite: the writer would like to see a world with less discrimination.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Takamba » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:41 pm

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:Sure, in the sense that two people who failed to resolve a difference and let it get to the point of a physical altercation might say that it took a fist-fight to finally get them to resolve their issue.

It doesn't follow that fistfights are necessary to resolve differences.

Also from the article:
And yet, let's consider the (relatively) good news here: The scrutiny -- and, to a great degree, level of outrage -- on the part of white people toward such incidents. Whites called Starbucks out on the arrest and are among those holding the corporation accountable for it.


I don't think the writer is calling for more incidents as a necessary thing to shine the light on discrimination. I think it's safe to say the opposite: the writer would like to see a world with less discrimination.


As brothers fight ye

So, magically discrimination is destined to go away? No, it's a rise in consciousness that everyone is anticipating. Well, anticipation isn't going to solve it, nor is a miracle from the sky - many have been trying to say this for eras. It just isn't going to hippywish happen, it happens through generations.

Laws are the last thing that make things work. When a body wants to argue in favor of laws (which coincidentally are left leaning or caused by needs created by leftist grants), I want to argue against them. If they want to argue in favor of opinions, I give them all the room they need.

I've never argued any differently.
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Re: Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:24 pm

That would be a valid point if we started the slate with no laws, and ran things just on opinions.

The starting point of our laws in the US was legal slavery for black people. We had to change both opinions and laws (and go to Civil War) to end it. Other countries didn't require a civil war, or changes in law, or changes in opinion, depending on the legal and social status of slavery at their inception.

I'm ok with your opinion that we should make an arbitrary distinction between opinions and laws, and that one side should only have access to the former, while the other side gets to fight with both weapons. I just think it's unfair, and I'm not going to be held to it.
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