[Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

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[Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Hermitas » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:24 pm

“The conscious fear of death is the father of the ego.”

A very little known author stated this matter-of-factly without elaboration in something that I was reading earlier today.

Spur any thoughts?
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Corvinae » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:08 pm

I was never afraid to die until I had my children.
Before my children I lived as I saw fit.
When I had my son I had such an urge to protect him
That I put on a mask and many veils.
I was afraid that if I died no one would take care of my kids.

Which is wrong
They arnt my kids
And the universe would have provided thier needs.
But it was a primal biological fear and something I had never felt before.
I dont feel that way anymore.
Love is the Law.
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Corvinae » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:32 pm

Ya know what Im afraid of?

Theres only only thing I can think of.....

Takamba and his dictionary

That is a scary thought and makes me hesitant to type on my phones tiny keyboard.

Death has nothing on that VBEG
Living a life in accordance to owns True Will frees you from Fear of Death.
But half arsed communication is just needless suffering
Love is the Law.
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Takamba » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:44 pm

“The conscious fear of death is the father of the ego.”

That is a very interesting thought. Chicken and egg thing. Scrambled into nothingness, fried, on the plate, and I will digest this as it appears quite appetizing. I'm thinking I tend to agree.
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby seekinghga » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:42 am

Hermitas wrote:“The conscious fear of death is the father of the ego.”

A very little known author stated this matter-of-factly without elaboration in something that I was reading earlier today.

Spur any thoughts?

Sure. The "father" of the Ego is consciousness. Fear of death is just one of the Ego's many trinkets. Everything that is born will die. Death can only occur to the Ego, so how can the fear of one of its condition play a part in its birth?
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Hermitas » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:18 pm

Pondering.

I think there’s something to “avoidance of negative conditions.” But what gives that priority over “seeking positive conditions”?

If you argue that the root chakra and its survival instincts represent the most fundamental level of consciousness, then I guess you might call it the “father of the ego.”
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Corvinae » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:32 pm

Hermitas wrote:Pondering.

I think there’s something to “avoidance of negative conditions.” But what gives that priority over “seeking positive conditions”?


I dont think its a clear cut what. Humans are arbitrary and fickle in thier responses to conditioning.
Some days they will avoid
Some days they will seek
Most people do not live in the moment and are either projecting into the future or dwelling in the past.
The ego is needed for both.
Being alive in moment frees you from the restrictions of ego and lets you except what comes as it is...neither negative or positive
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby seekinghga » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:53 pm

Hermitas, consider Crowley's own words in regards to his commentary upon AL 2:8--

"Harpocrates is also the Dwarf-Soul, the Secret Self of every man (and woman, added by extension of reality), the Serpent with the Lion's Head. Now Hadit knows Nuit by virtue of his 'Going' or 'Love.' It is therefore wrong to worship Hadit; one is to be Hadit, and worship Her. This is clear even from His instruction 'To worship me' in verse 22 of this chapter. Confer, Cap.I, v.9. We are exhorted to offer ourselves unto Nuit, pilgrims to all her temples. It is bad Magick to admit that one is other than One's inmost self. One should plunge passionately into every possible experience; by doing so one is purged of those personal prejudices which we took so stupidly for ourselves, though they prevented us from realizing our true Wills and from knowing our Names and Natures. The Aspirant must well understand that it is no paradox to say that the Annihilation of the Ego in the Abyss is the condition of emancipating the true Self, and exalting it to unimaginable heights. So long as one remains 'one's self,' one is overwhelmed by the Universe; destroy the sense of self, and every event is equally an expression of one's Will, since its occurrence is the resultant of the concourse of the forces which one recognizes as one's own."

"Who worshipped Heru-pa-kraath have worshipped me; ill, for I am the worshipper."

What is the definition of awareness? To say that awareness is "having or showing realization, perception, or knowledge," as Merriam-Webster puts it, is in error. Those are actions which have awareness as their foundation but are not indicative of awareness as it is in and of itself. To define awareness as they have here is tantamount to saying that the definition of the word legs is "having or showing the ability to walk." Note how we say MY realization, MY perception, MY knowledge, because these things are merely exercises belonging to or enabled by awareness, which is the essence of our reality. Awareness can be conceptualized (but not defined) as plenary subjectivity, but it can not truly be reified to conform to the standards required of intellectual comprehension; one cannot make the ocean wetter with the dampness of a piece of wood taken from the ocean, nor can the moon cast its rays to light up the sun. We are aware and know that we are aware by fact of our own capability to decide whether or not we are, however, the basis of our cognition can only be meaningfully ascertained by way of direct experience, not mentation.

Now, if mentation in this matter is faulty then it stands to reason that everything that I've just written here is pointless. This is correct so far that all that comes of it is the stoking of the flames of cerebral consumption; the accumulation of baubles, the sating of bellies. The most useful purpose for discussing such matters therefore is the extent to which they can lead one to becoming desirous to experience it for themselves. An ancillary utility of philosophical prattle is that by discussing the method in which the techniques work will allow advanced or spirited aspirants to potentially come up with more direct routes to the means of effecting progress in the path. Purification of the mind is directly commensurate to the attenuation of its capricious, outgoing and self-insisting behavior. Philosophy has a tendency to create quite the opposite reaction within the mind, and so it needs to be emphatically exhorted here that its only appropriate use is in regards to cultivating the desire to practice meditation, the stilling of the mind, which eventually, through tenacity and patience (we persist to the extent that we love--think on that statement in regards to anything in your life), allows one to experience an emancipation from the restrictions of their conditioned relation to the universe. Like clouds and birds and mountains are reflected upon the still clear of a lake surface, so is everything but a reflection upon the pristine and ubiquitous clear light of consciousness, a reflection atop its waters.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Corvinae » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:05 pm

"we persist to the extent that we love--think on that statement in regards to anything in your life"

Thank you for sharing your insight and articulating it so elegantly.

This line here has helped me immensely this week and has helped me put some pain I have in its true perspective. It is said "What we resist persists" and as I try to clean out my closets of subconscious programs and feel an initial tug to cling to baubbles and phantoms your words (not just these but your personal storey of pain) has be a strong hand up to help me persist with Love.
Love is the Law.
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby seekinghga » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:38 am

Corvinae wrote:"we persist to the extent that we love--think on that statement in regards to anything in your life"

Thank you for sharing your insight and articulating it so elegantly.

This line here has helped me immensely this week and has helped me put some pain I have in its true perspective.

I'm truly glad that it could help. :)

It is said "What we resist persists"

This is a highly accurate statement, so far as meditation is concerned. Such is why it is said that desires AND aversions are one and the same. In meditation it is especially important to not try and fight or "resist" the thoughts because that only strengthens them. One must recognize the thoughts for what they are, distractions, and gently yet firmly direct the attention back to the object of meditation. If you fight with the thoughts as they come about you may beat them for a time but more will arise to replace them, and they are infinite in their realm of mind.

"O ye that drink of the brine of your desire, ye are nigh to madness! Your torture increaseth as ye drink, yet still ye drink. Come up through the creeks to the fresh water; I shall be waiting for you with my kisses."

and as I try to clean out my closets of subconscious programs and feel an initial tug to cling to baubbles and phantoms your words (not just these but your personal storey of pain) has be a strong hand up to help me persist with Love.

That my words have yielded to the Midas touch of your use and inspiration is heartwarming. You're a regular alchemist, you know that? :D The mind revels in familiarity. To cling is its way to avoid change. The Great Work can be called the exorcism of the mind, to rid it of that false, clinging spirit named Ego. The Ego can only exist in duality, therefore it will struggle and bite and claw in order to keep the mind from learning concentration, which leads to alert stillness, a state of total starvation for the Ego.

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa once said that "one who finds ecstatic love has found the rope to tie God with." Consider that by God is meant Brahman, which quite literally is awareness, satchitananda. Undiluted, undiffracted, unblemished and unobscured awareness is the essence of our nature. To realize this we must remove the accretions which compartmentalize and distract our attention away from our real nature due to tendencies (samskaras or vasanas), which are the architects of thought and hence duality. Now, when the parabhakta awakens to the sense of "ecstatic love" they have no room for any other consideration. Their attention is fixed on the magnanimous beauty of pure consciousness, again, satchitananda. They have "tied God," or, to be clearer, they are well on their way to the peak of samyama. Thus Ramakrishna's statement is merely describing meditation.

We call it meditation because it appears to be at odds with the seemingly more natural motions of the mind. These mental movements (i.e. thoughts, perceptions, feelings, etc.) seem natural due to our conditioning that has identified us with them. Hadit is the inmost self of every star. Hadit is awareness, Nuit all possibilities of which we can be aware. To attain Hadit is to experience our inmost self when it has been stripped of all adjuncts, external and internal.

The most potent form of meditation that I have discovered is meditating on silence. Silence is everywhere. It is because our attention is drawn to the noises around us that we miss it. Silence is the background upon which all sound is played. By listening to silence it focuses our attention on an object which provides no stimulus to the senses. But even though we aren't hearing anything, we are paying attention, we are concentrating, on nothing that our senses can comprehend or put to form. This is called nirguna dhyana, formless meditation, and it is very powerful and can be done at any time in any environment. With practice you will be able to concentrate or put attention or meditate on the silence even in a noisy, crowded room. That is strengthening of pratyahara. Every time noise or distracting thought comes, turn the attention back upon the silence. This is what my "Oho!" poem is alluding to. Do not forget that Harpocrates is the Silent Self!

Don't worry, I'm not saying that meditation in that way is the best method or even the preferred method, I'm only saying it proved pretty powerful to me. ;) Maybe you or someone else could find some usage in it...

"In the silence of Things, in the Night of Forces, beyond the accursèd domain of the Three, let us enjoy our love!"
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Corvinae » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:28 pm

I always appreciate your kind gentle words. Its nice that you take the time to share your keen insights. It gives me hope for the world that seems at times to be overrun with Egos and pain and people who dont care about anything, myself included.
Im flattered you call me a regular alchemist because I dont feel very Golden, more like a worn out tired single mom who is trying to keep her head above water. Yet I know thats real life magic.

"Such is why it is said that desires AND aversions are one and the same."

This statement has caused many people to get very upset with me when I point out this fact.

Fight for your limiations and they truly are yours...

Thank you for the excellent meditation. I love it. I work in loud crazy place and its hard to stay conscious. Its a nice thought that silence is always there.
Love is the Law.
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby FiatYod » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:15 am

I think the opposite is true: the Ego is the father of the conscious fear of death. As seekinghga wrote, death can only occur to the Ego.
However, the conscious fear of death may give birth to many other thoughts which would only reinforce and strengthen the Ego. So it's some sort of a feedback loop.
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Hermitas » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:19 pm

Hmm.. But what gives rise to the ego then?
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby FiatYod » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:03 pm

Hermitas wrote:Hmm.. But what gives rise to the ego then?

Consciousness, I believe (to second seekinghga's first comment on this thread).
Perhaps with the assistance of some sensory information from one's surroundings.
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Takamba » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:08 pm

Perhaps it is love that gives rise to the ego. Crowley writes that it is dis-ease that gives rise to consciousness, and dis-ease is caused by the separation from love. And it is only in dis-ease that we are aware of anything, including the absence of the divine love perhaps, fear of further separation (the pain of division) is the fear of death. Fear of death is the fear of a greater (possibly) and unknown dis-ease, which must be the fear of a greater absence of the divine love, and the love of all the "living things" too.
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Corvinae » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:56 am

Takamba wrote:Perhaps it is love that gives rise to the ego. Crowley writes that it is dis-ease that gives rise to consciousness, and dis-ease is caused by the separation from love. And it is only in dis-ease that we are aware of anything, including the absence of the divine love perhaps, fear of further separation (the pain of division) is the fear of death. Fear of death is the fear of a greater (possibly) and unknown dis-ease, which must be the fear of a greater absence of the divine love, and the love of all the "living things" too.

Like I said
The only thing I am afraid of is Takamba and his dictionary

Oh what would I do
If I didnt have you
Close in my heart
To remind me of art
And science above all
I surely would fall
Into the unknown abyss
With my spelling amiss
Love is the Law.
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby seekinghga » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:31 pm

Takamba wrote:Perhaps it is love that gives rise to the ego.

It is love which absolutely gives rise to the Ego. Love it is which invariably dissolves it.

"Nor let the fools mistake love; for there are love and love. There is the dove, and there is the serpent."

The Ego arises when mind or beliefs or perceptions (read: thoughts) are mistaken for Kether/Hadit--source, origin, center, etc. Choronzon shouts, "I am I!" However, the Ego never really arose because it doesn't exist in the sense of things like the Will. The Ego is a self-created and self-creating false "reality" comprised of thought and identification of or with thought.
FiatYod wrote:So it's some sort of a feedback loop.
One is not the Ego, the Ego is a filter or screen through which Will manifests. The untrammeled flow rate of that activity denotes one's spiritual progress within Thelema.

"I, and Me, and Mine were sitting with lutes in the market-place of the great city, the city of the violets and the roses."
Last edited by seekinghga on Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Hermitas » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:01 pm

Hm.

The answers seem to fall into basic categories of Attraction and Repulsion.
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby seekinghga » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:56 am

Hermitas wrote:Hm.

The answers seem to fall into basic categories of Attraction and Repulsion.

Exactly. Answers born of thought are for whom or what? They are for the Ego alone. This is why we need to go beyond them, to the Point where knowledge cannot go. Only by training the mind to cease its self-propelled meandering can we get the "answer" which transcends the need for answer. :) The fulfillment of Tiphareth occurs via Kether. However, to cross that way is to ride the camel which does the traversing for us, that our minds are not wholly purified of their covetous nature for knowledge or Da'at.

"The exposure of innocence is a lie."

"Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; & all their words are skew-wise."

[edit]

"Now, if there is any difference at all between the White and the Black Adept in similar case, it is that the one, working by 'love under will' achieves a marriage with the new idea, while the other, merely grabbing, adds a concubine to his harem of slaves."
- A.C., "Magick Without Tears", ch xii
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby Takamba » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:40 am

...attachment to desire and it is called tanha
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: [Discussion Quote] The conscious fear of death is the...

Postby seekinghga » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:11 am

Takamba wrote:...attachment to desire and it is called tanha

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14646&start=25#p101741
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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