Harassment

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Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:08 am

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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:57 pm

FYI, this doofus in the photo (to the left of the other doofus, Gavin McInnes) is Max Hare.
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Mercurius, it looks like your boy was arrested for felony gang assault on Monday. *tiny violins*
http://gothamist.com/2018/10/22/proud_b ... arrest.php

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Oh, and here's his best buddy, Matthew Lyons.

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Did you crop Matthew Lyons out because he died of a drug overdose?

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Let me know when you get tired of all the winning. :lol:
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Re: Harassment

Postby FiatYod » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:13 am

What was the point of the original message?
Who are these guys (I mean, besides what you described - why is one of them wearing a Thelemic hoodie?)?
I'm completely out of context here...
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Re: Harassment

Postby Hermitas » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:52 am

Mercurius is a racist Nazi-sympathizer who is harrassing Av.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:14 pm

Who's that guy in the blue pin-stripe suit? He looks so bad-ass. Like an evil super-villain!

Also, did you just poke fun at somebody because they died of a drug overdose?? I have no context to who these people are, but isn't that a little much?
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:46 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.gothamis ... 000192f1a7

You can read more about these losers above.

No, he's not a bad ass. He's a mediocre comedian who caught a case of the Nazis.

Lyons (in the hoodie) was OTO but went so far down the Nazi rabbit hole they actually kicked him out.

No, it's not going too far to make fun of Nazis who go around assaulting, lynching, and preaching a method of murderous racist hate when they die in loser ways.

I also make fun of Hitler for not being able to make it through dinner without excessive flatulence and dying on their honeymoon.

When we've gone a month without right-wing terrorism, synagogue shootings, or pipe bombs in the mail I'll entertain concerns about whether I'm being to mean to Nazis with my words.

They are losers who die loser deaths, and then we curse their memory. That's what they're telling us their Will is when they become Nazis.

If you want to be treated nice you behave in a way that merits that, if you want to be mocked and hated you become a Nazi.

Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Takamba » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:33 am

Pity not the fallen! I never knew them. I am not for them. I console not: I hate the consoled & the consoler.





Fear not at all; fear neither men nor Fates, nor gods, nor anything. Money fear not, nor laughter of the folk folly, nor any other power in heaven or upon the earth or under the earth. Nu is your refuge as Hadit your light; and I am the strength, force, vigour, of your arms.

Mercy let be off; damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:26 pm

Are these, like, actual self-identified Nazis? I'm always hesitant when people throw around the term "Nazi"... So often, it's an easy way to vilify and dismiss individuals and their arguments. I've seen both Milo Yiannopoulos (the gayest man alive) and Ben Shapiro (who literally wears a yarmulke) called Nazis before... Which, in my opinion, is simply ridiculous.

But if he's actually a self-identified Nazi, then obviously that's despicable. Nazism is abhorrent, as is racism -- that all should go without saying.

Still not sure how I feel about mocking someone's friend for dying of a drug overdose... But to each his own, I suppose.

Takamba, if you view those passages as external, literal injunctions by which you live your life, then you can't exactly be mad when people go around assaulting and lynching. From what Benjamin said, it sounds like those supposed Nazis would be brandishing and living by those same verses. Taken internally, those passages are strong and mighty, adjuring us to be brutal with the Kings of Unbalanced Force within us. Taken externally, those passages seem to support eugenics, stamping out the weak, and, mixed with certain political and social views, actual Nazism.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:45 pm

I don't need to justify myself. The facts are literally there for anyone who bothers to look.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15055&p=102279&hilit=Heil+Hitler#p102279

He self identifies as a Nazi, posts "Heil Hitler" calls me a faggot, sends me pictures of violent Nazi proud boys and your response is that I'm throwing the term Nazi too liberally.

Shame on you.

That attitude is every bit as responsible for this situation as actual self identified Nazis.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:52 pm

www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremi ... proud-boys

The doofus in the blue suit's own words:
“We see there are no old trannies. They die of drug overdoses and suicide way before they’re 40 and nobody notices because nobody knows them. They are mentally ill gays who need help, and that doesn’t include being maimed by physicians.” McInnes has also referred to transgender people as “gender niggers” and “stupid lunatics.”


in early 2017, the Proud Boys added another degree to their membership hierarchy: in order to enter the 4th degree, a member needs to “get involved in a major fight for the cause.” “You get beat up, kick the crap out of an antifa,” McInnes explained to Metro.


Brian Brathovd, aka Caeralus Rex, told his co-hosts on the antisemitic The Daily Shoah — one of the most popular alt-right podcasts. If the Proud Boys “were pressed on the issue, I guarantee you that like 90% of them would tell you something along the lines of ‘Hitler was right. Gas the Jews.’”


Doofuses like Max Hare and dead druggie Matthew Lyons ( :lol: ) are mostly just insecure wannabe copy cats of faux-thelemite/domestic abuser, rapist piece-of-(****), Sol Ivictus, who got kicked out of the OTO after his Nazism got too stupid, and video surfaced of him botching a goat sacrifice.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... l-invictus
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:10 pm

Your anger is blinding you. I didn't say you were throwing around the term "Nazi" too liberally. I HAVE seen many people use the term liberally, which is why I asked you if these people you're talking about self-identify a Nazis. If they do, then you are most certainly not using the term liberally!

"That attitude is every bit as responsible for this situation as actual self identified Nazis."

You really need to cool off here. I get that you're upset because you're being harassed (I think?), but there's no need to get ridiculous.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:19 pm

Wait a minute, I just went to that thread you linked me to, and in it you call Takamba a Nazi (if I'm reading that right.)

Does Takamba identify as a Nazi??

...

Now, remember, I didn't tell you I think you're using the term Nazi liberally... But seeing how often you use the term, and your defensiveness when I didn't even accuse you of anything, I am now starting to wonder... Now, maybe Takamba does self-identify as a Nazi. I'll let him clear that up, if he wishes. But if he doesn't, then perhaps you DO use the term liberally?
Last edited by Luce on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:15 pm

Oh, you got me! I'm angry. :lol:

First of all, get your facts straight. I didn't call Takamba a nazi. I called him a Nazi defender. Takamba is a Nazi defender.

Takamba's words about the Nazi who murdered two people on the light rail in my neighborhood:
The Nazi was justified in Nuit's law because the dead man put himself in harm's way.


Now, I know that he says stupid things it to rile up my "liberal tardedness". But you know, some Nazis in Germany hung Nazi flags because they had Jew neighbors they wanted to (****) off, not because they actually wanted to burn them in ovens. It doesn't make an ounce of difference. And he's getting the label he requested with his behavior.

Now, when you see a nazi calling people faggot, sending pictures of nazis who have now been arraigned for felony gang assault while carrying guns, and you say, "hey that guy they called a faggot, he seems a bit *too* angry, and uses the word nazi too liberally." Guess what? You're a nazi defender.

I'm not angry, I'm not afraid. I'm choosing to mock nazis every time they open their idiot mouths. And every time you defend them, I'm going to mock you for being an idiot nazi defender.

I'm super pleased to be able to do this public service. It's frankly a lot of fun.

But thanks for your unasked for, self-serving comments about my emotional state.

Now go cry righteously indignant tears about the poor drug-addicted, loser nazis on your "I'm so neutral and rational!" pillow.

Your nazi-defending pride is blinding you.

It doesn't matter if I'm obnoxious, or caustic, or unpleasant, or seem angry. Those are all ok ways to be. :lol:

At least I'm not a dumb nazi, or an even bigger fool defending one.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:22 pm

PS, Milo and Ben Shapiro are both Nazis.

You can be a gay nazi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_R%C3%B6hm

You can be a jewish nazi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Maurice

Nazis will gladly accept a few token non-whites/straight people who help them further their cause, and to give Nazi defenders like Luce another pro-Nazi argument.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:26 pm

(It's almost funny how quickly nazis and defenders out themselves. All you have to do is call Hitler, or a Nazi, a couple names, and they're right there going, "You should watch what you say about these guys!")
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:03 pm

Wow.

Let's recap here. First of all, you don't know me, nor do I know you. I enter this thread, having never seen these people in the photo, and ask you (completely sincerely) who they are. You say they are Nazis, and then I, again, completely sincerely, ask if they are self-identified Nazis (because those are out there) or just people who you claim are Nazis.

And for that, now I'm getting called a Nazi defender, and being hinted at that I'm a Nazi? And don't tell me to "get my facts straight." I literally just read you say in the other thread that Takamba is a "stupid Nazi." You ALSO called him a Nazi defender. You called him both things.

Now, maybe all these people are Nazis. But you HAVE shown that you are completed emotionally entrenched in this to the point that you are utterly blinded to all rationality. So you've become quite an unreliable source. For Christ sake, you just called Ben Shapiro a Nazi. I think that's all I need to hear.

Honestly, Benjamin, and I'm not trying to rile you up further by saying this, but I'm genuinely disappointed with this. I've lurked on this site far more than I've posted, and I've previously seen you as a level-headed guy. But now within a couple of brief posts, you're calling me a Nazi defender. And that's sad to me. I hate Nazis, I hate racism, I hate white-supremacy. But when you broaden the term "Nazi" to include people like Ben Shapiro, you've lost your mind. I hope you get out of this funk, release the hatred in your heart, and can continue on, still getting mad about injustice, but without labeling people as Nazis and Nazi-defenders at the drop of a hat.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:22 pm

For those who are unfamiliar with Ben Shapiro, in 2016 he was the journalist who was targeted with the most anti-Semitic tweets, according to the Anti-Defamation League's Task Force.

You can see the report here:

https://goo.gl/tFJnZd

He received more anti-Semitic tweets than anyone else in the world in 2016, by a long shot. Those anti-Semitic tweets he received came from actual Nazis, as Ben Shapiro is hated by Neo-Nazis and the Alt-Right. But yet according to Benjamin, he himself is a Nazi. Right.
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Re: Harassment

Postby mark0987 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:24 am

Even if you drop the term nazi- it adds nothing to the discussion. Their behaviour is still abhorrent to most civilised, people with a general ethical compass.

I'm gay and I have been called a faggot numerous times, it does incite anger, it is belittling and it is dehumanizing. I will also say I am not a small man and I respond accordingly, I have been attacked physically by a group of men before whom I had not even glanced at let alone spoke to. The fact of the matter is, these people have thwarted not only my human rights, but are attempting to suppress and cull my rights to live as I want to live- in a Thelemic sense, these individuals who step over that line of free speech into action are violating Liber Oz. They deserve to die in a Thelemic sense and I will not weep over anyone who has died who supports the restriction of expression, let them die in their misery.

I have noticed a trend of the people in the middle to defend both sides. You can't label everyone a nazi because they don't use that term. You can't call people faggots or N-words because those words are hurtful. The issue is, the person in the middle is normally a privileged, cis, white male who has never had to fight a day in his life for the freedom to be who he is and be accepted as such. The fact of the matter is you do not hear of minority groups going around attacking random members of the public, but you hear of members of the public attacking minority groups.

To describe a transperson as a mentally ill gay person is not only ridiculous, it is hurtful to those who are trans, it is said to spread hate and incite violence against a minute group of people who day by day have to claw their way through life as it is. There are transpeople who are not even gay in their born gender- there are males who are attracted to women but feel as though they are themselves a woman who then get surgery and are still attracted to women. Their decision to do all of that harms no one.

They don't care if they label us incorrectly, they don't care if the labels hurt, they don't care if they don't even know what they are talking about! Have at it, call them nazis, in my book they're as good as!

Blaming a minority for the shitty issues of the middleman- look to you rich superiors, they are the issue, not the people struggling through life!

These people are making those of minorities kill themselves, they are making the world a crueller place for these minorities, they are scaring us. They are essentially terrorists: just because they aren't muslim or aren;t German doesn't change what they are. It's simply that the government the US has at the moment doesn't want to paint them that way in the media- it wouldn't do well for that orange {dim}wit and his policies.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:35 am

Thanks for your sane contribution, Max.

I'm sorry that's happened to you, and it's not ok.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:50 am

Luce, my name isn't Benjamin. Get it right. Evidence you can't think straight because you're too mad about being called out for defending Nazis.

Your logic is stupifying.

The Nazi who killed Jews in a synagogue this week hated Trump for not being Nazi enough. He also went to Trump rallies.

Being the target of anti-semitism is wrong regardless of the target. But it doesn't mean you can't also be a White Nationalist (Nazi)

Here's Israeli paper, ha'aretz breaking it down for you.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premiu ... -1.5451182

Yes, all the different kind of Nazis (alt right, white nationalists, kkk, Nazi flag wavers) fight as much with each other as you would expect inbred incels to.

That doesn't make any of them less of a Nazi.

Sorry the facts offend you.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:13 am

Luce, the fact that a day ago you had no idea who the leader of the Proud Boy movement is, yet somehow decided that instead of going and educating yourself on the subject you should call me out for calling Nazis, Nazis shows that you are too egotistical to think straight.

And no, you don't hate Nazism. You've posted half a dozen times in this thread, which is about , and 100% of your posts are criticizing me and 0% of your posts are criticizing the person who has literally said "Heil Hitler" on this forum, who sent me a PM calling me a faggot with a picture of the White Supremacist leader of the Proud Boys.

That doesn't make you a Nazi hater, that makes you a Nazi defender. Objectively. It's fact.

I may be an inflammatory {***hole}, but as a result, I've flushed out another person who thinks white supremacy isn't as bad as calling white nationalists Nazis.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:21 am

Good grief, you're treating me completely as some imaginary person, instead of responding to me as I actually am!

First of all, I entered this discussion because I was curious as to who the people were in the photo. Also, I was shocked to hear you poke fun at someone who died of an OD, and so I wanted to hear why you did it.

So, no, I didn't enter the discussion to criticize "Mercurius" or whoever he is. Obviously someone sending people "faggot" messages and saying "Heil Hitler" is a contemptible person. I entered this thread to talk to YOU -- why would I bother engaging with someone saying "Heil Hitler" and calling people faggots?

You're putting all sorts of words in my mouth! I didn't even outright condemn you making fun of the OD. That's WHY I asked why you did it! You responded with saying he was a Nazi... Then I asked if he was a self-identified Nazi, or someone you're just calling a Nazi (which was an honest question), and you blew the **** up.

As to your name, my apologies: I thought I had heard others call you Ben on his forum, and had thought that your handle on this site was a creative way to spell "Benjamin." But I see my honest mistake means I'm "illogical" and that I'm "mad about being called a Nazi defender."

...

I obviously entered into an incredibly explosive thread, not knowing what I was walking in on. Having searched a little through your recent history, I see I'm far from the only one. You've exploded on many people, hurling personal attacks and insults toward anyone who doesn't completely agree with you.

You are confusing SO MANY PEOPLE under the epithet "Nazi." THAT'S what I'm defending. In one breath, Ben Shapiro is a Nazi, and in the second breath, you're talking about the full-blown Nazi who was responsible for the worst anti-Semitic attack on American soil! How you can put those two people in the same category is beyond me.

And Mark, you're doing the same thing! You're talking about these people in your life who have hurt you and called you hurtful things, and then you're implying it's okay to call EVERYONE a Nazi?? At least, your post seems to indicate that I shouldn't be standing up for people like Ben Shapiro (who was called a Nazi in this thread). Notice how I not once criticized calling Mercurius a Nazi!! I would call that guy a Nazi! I'm against people calling BEN SHAPIRO a Nazi. Is Ben Shapiro running around calling people faggots??? COME ON. Anyone who says that has obviously never given Shapiro any sort of a listen. He's not alt-right, he's not a Nazi, he's not even close to either of those things.

Mark, you said:

"They don't care if they label us incorrectly, they don't care if the labels hurt, they don't care if they don't even know what they are talking about! Have at it, call them nazis, in my book they're as good as!"

Do you see the problem here?? Who is "they"???? If "they" are the people calling you a faggot and threatening your life, then fine. But if the "they" includes people like Orthodox Jewish journalists, like Ben Shapiro, then you're crazy.

Mark, I 100% see your point. But instead of reading how pseudo-Benjamin is portraying me, just look at my posts. I was literally asking questions about people I've never heard of people. I had never heard of the "Proud Boys" until this thread! And, knowing that people like Ben Shapiro get thrown under the label of "Nazi" (as pseudo-Benjamin demonstrated so well), I was genuinely curious if they were real Nazis or not.

It's absurd to say everyone right of center is a Nazi. That's absolutely immoral and insane. People can call White-supremacists Nazis all day long. So if the "Proud Boys" are white-supremacists, then call 'em Nazis; that's fine by me!

I don't have much more to say than that. I don't think my stance is all that radical. I don't think we should call people like Ben Shapiro (who received more threats and hate from the Alt Right then any other Jewish person in 2016) a Nazi.

I don't know what else to say to you, pseudo-Ben... I'm trying to chalk this all up to you going through something, but it's hard when you're calling me a "Nazi defender" when the only person I've defended in this entire thread is Ben Shapiro.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:28 am

For those just skimming, I am NOT against calling white supremacists Nazis, as pseudo-Benjamin incorrectly stated. I would also call white supremacists Nazis. In my mind, those two things are basically synonymous. I am not defending white supremacists at all, as anyone reading this thread in its entirety undoubtedly can see.

I AM defending calling people like Ben Shapiro a Nazi. That's absolutely insane.

Is it okay to make fun of an OD of someone you think is a white-supremacist? If they identified as a white-supremacist, perhaps. But if they didn't identify as such, I personally wouldn't stoop to that level. It's your karma, though.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Takamba » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:28 pm

Hate speech from any direction is still hate speech.
Name calling, whatever the name used, and whatever the accuracy upon the target, is still name calling.

You will see consistency in Avshalom's argument methods and those two statements above.
Fucking Nazis! (I once used Nigger in one of these forums not as a racist statement, but as a powerful word to prove a point that the word's power was in the reception - not the utterance).
I was called a NAZI defender (or a NAZI, I haven't researched that thread to check it all again) because I showed how a person's Darwin award prize also happened in a racist killing - both can be true.
I've seen Av's mind at work in his many arguments in these threads (in a Temple? Other religions would cry in fear), I'm not impressed.

Continue on Luce. You keep hitting the mark.
I am not a Nazi, self-declared, actually, in opinion, in thought, nor in deeds.
I am not a pacifist either (one does not mean then the other, btw).
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Re: Harassment

Postby mark0987 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:15 pm

And Mark, you're doing the same thing! You're talking about these people in your life who have hurt you and called you hurtful things, and then you're implying it's okay to call EVERYONE a Nazi?


My point was more aimed at those who perform the actions, rather than those who merely make comments. Saying something and doing something are two very different things. Not everyone, but as I have always said, if the shoe fits, wear it. I prefer the name extremist or terrorist. The oxford dictionary defines terrorist as

"A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

This would include the above.

Do you see the problem here?? Who is "they"???? If "they" are the people calling you a faggot and threatening your life, then fine. But if the "they" includes people like Orthodox Jewish journalists, like Ben Shapiro, then you're crazy.


I haven't got a clue who Mr Shapiro is, but so long as he isn't actively harming people I don't care. You do know what Nazis didn't just target Jews also? Everyone seems to forget the homosexuals, traveling folk, black people, and disabled people who were targeted by the Nazi regime. But as I say above, I prefer the name terrorist. Nazis could be seen as sub-form of terrorism in this day and age.

Mark, I 100% see your point. But instead of reading how pseudo-Benjamin is portraying me, just look at my posts. I was literally asking questions about people I've never heard of people. I had never heard of the "Proud Boys" until this thread! And, knowing that people like Ben Shapiro get thrown under the label of "Nazi" (as pseudo-Benjamin demonstrated so well), I was genuinely curious if they were real Nazis or not.



Didn't aim my comments at you- I don't know you, I don't resort to ad hominem attacks to strangers, so long as you aren't going out beating people or shouting abuse at them for no reason, we have no issues!

It's absurd to say everyone right of center is a Nazi. That's absolutely immoral and insane. People can call White-supremacists Nazis all day long. So if the "Proud Boys" are white-supremacists, then call 'em Nazis; that's fine by me!


I agree, it is the extreme right which is the problem, and again I am talking about behaviours, not beliefs. Again, this issue is larger than race, I am grouping anyone who seeks to dehumanise and hurt an individual because they are part of a minority which they cannot accept.

Fucking Nazis! (I once used Nigger in one of these forums not as a racist statement, but as a powerful word to prove a point that the word's power was in the reception - not the utterance).


Takamba, the issue is not the utterance but rather the intention behind it- how you intend it to be received. I am not using the word terrorism to incite hatred, I am using to show how when the shoe is on the other foot i.e. a white person we are not as accepting as when it is applied to an Asian person. But the fact of the matter is, from the definition, they are both doing the same thing albeit with different methods. The pipe bombs sent to Obama and Hilary Clinton are not covered as an attempted terror attack, that is not the head line I have seen anyway.

The extreme right has a problem, as does the extreme left. I don't tar everyone with the same brush, but when they express behaviours which are in line with established labels which are not derogatory terms but simple collective nouns, it makes sense to use them.

If you are banking money you are a banker. If you are using language and actions to incite fear in civilians with political aims in mind you are a terrorist. If you believe all Jews are vermin, actively hate on and harm Jewish people, and have a liking of the swastika chances are you are a neo-nazi (or a Hindu who hates Jews!).

The way I use these terms is not out of hate which is how the extreme right use them, I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed. I live in Britain, such speech is illegal, such groups are watched closely, and our society is largely more accepting these days and getting even more so. I see the opposite occuring in the US and have friends both left and right who say the same. Even Caitlyn Jenner is beginning to regret supporting Trump. Just an outsiders observation.
"Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realises that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: 'Ye must have faith.'"

-Max Planck
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