Harassment

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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:43 pm

Yes, I, too, am an outsider-looking-in on the American sociopolitical landscape. And to me, it looks like the problem is both the extreme right and the extreme left. Between white-supremacists and Antifa, there are so many terrorists making the country toxic. And on a lesser scale, there are the "alt-lite" people and the "sjw" people who are breeding toxicity not necessarily through action, but through rhetoric.

I can't stand that Thelema has gotten so political. In so many communities you see people aligning themselves so heavily with a political party, isolating those who disagree. It's utterly absurd to say you can't vote for Trump and be a Thelemite or that you can't NOT vote for Trump and be a Thelemite. I wish most Thelemic groups would stay transcendent of politics, but alas...
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Re: Harassment

Postby Hermitas » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:21 pm

Av, like punishing a child for fighting back, reasonable or not, they just expect more from you.

I’ve no room to judge. I’ve done all of it.

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Re: Harassment

Postby mark0987 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:15 pm

And on a lesser scale, there are the "alt-lite" people and the "sjw" people who are breeding toxicity not necessarily through action, but through rhetoric.


I agree, and sometimes the people who fall into this category can be just as insidious, extremism of any kind is unhealthy for everyone involved.

I can't stand that Thelema has gotten so political. In so many communities you see people aligning themselves so heavily with a political party, isolating those who disagree. It's utterly absurd to say you can't vote for Trump and be a Thelemite or that you can't NOT vote for Trump and be a Thelemite. I wish most Thelemic groups would stay transcendent of politics, but alas...


Politics matters in this day and age, the choice between Hilary and Trump mattered. I wouldn't say a Thelemite couldn't vote for Trump, but I cannot see how a Thelemite can stand up and say they believe Trump's policies are Thelemic. They are not. He has single-handedly undone a lot of progress for the LGBTQ community, he has done a lot of harm to the progress of race equality, and his message is wholly one of division.

The fact of the matter is, if you follow "Every man and every woman is a star", "Love is the law, love under will".

Let's not forget that Crowley also wrote:

"The sexual act is a sacrament of Will. To profane it is the great offence. All true expression of it is lawful; all suppression or distortion is contrary to the Law of Liberty. To use legal or financial constraint to compel either abstention or submission, is entirely horrible, unnatural and absurd."

By supporting Trump's suppression of LGBTQ communities, by performing acts such as the above mentioned, you are violating the Law of Liberty which everyone has a right to.

Now of course people not part of the communities don't care, I imagine they had other reasons for voting for him, I do not judge the decision of the voter, but their own behaviour and thoughts. If they honestly believe what Trump is doing to minority groups is fair and good for the country, they are not Thelemites in my opinion, they cannot be. To call themselves that is hypocrisy as far as I can see if they emulate the violent behaviours which are being inspired towards these communities.

As for people saying Av is too angry, of course he is. If I lived in the US I would be furious that my fellow countrymen have allowed this to happen to my community. I would be filled with resentment and hate. There is only so much (****) a person can take and if people don't fight back, I prefer peaceful protest, nothing will change and all progress will be for nothing. If you are not one of the individuals whose freedom is threatened, who is scared to live as they will because of other people, you have no insight to how those people should feel, do feel, and how they should act.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:11 am

all fools despise!


I'm dishing out less than what has been served up, and watching the hypocrisy of everyone who calls me out on it.

I don't believe that Nazis should be holocausted. I don't believe any of them is intrinsically evil. And people are allowed to believe whatever nonsense they wish. I think lots of awful, anti-social things in my head, as is my right.

But the minute you voice it to others, you deserve to be called a fool, and anything else a person has to say. Free speech, right?

Fair is fair. Being called an idiot for espousing nazi ideas is the karma of espousing nazi ideas.

And I will joyfully partake in celebrating the self-imposed death of any such cretin. Celebrating the self-imposed death of someone who celebrates the death of others is less than the full karma due for celebrating the death of others.

Proud Boys believe that minorities should be grateful that white europeans colonized and enslaved them (their words). They wish Hitler had succeeded.

Pretending that calling someone an idiot because they worship Hitler is hate speech the way that wishing for the enslavement and death of whole peoples for the skin or orientation they were born with is contemptible.

It's a false equivalence that supports white supremacy.

It's none of my business "why" a person says "Heil Hitler" or uses slurs. It's contemptible whether you say it because you really believe it or because you just want to rile a person up.

---

Luce, my name isn't pseudo-Benjamin either. I'm sorry you're having a hard time controlling your anger here enough to spell correctly.

Thank you for finally condemning the hate speech of a nazi on this forum. I'm sorry it took so long, but I recognize that you did it finally. So thank you.

Yes, reasonable people can disagree on where the line is between nazism and conservatism.

It should be pretty easy. The reason it's so murky these days is by design. Breitbart and the alt-right have deliberately repackaged nazism in a way that makes one end of the spectrum palatable, while still serving the aims of nazis.

The solution isn't to be more civil, and pretend not to see nazism unless it comes out and says it. The solution, is to accept that they've poisoned the well, and all alt-right is nazism, to some degree or another.

Ben Shapiro isn't a Nazi in the sense of someone who wants to holocaust the jews. He's on the more palatable end of the spectrum. But he has espoused white supremacist and racist arguments, time and time again.

Here are some examples:

1. He denies that systemic racism in America is a real thing.
The idea that black people in the United States are disproportionately poor because America is racist; that’s just not true, at least not in terms of America’s racism today keeping black people down. It’s just not the case.


He has espoused racist ideas against, blacks, native americans, and arabs:

2.
“Since nobody seems willing to state the obvious due to cultural sensitivity … I’ll say it: rap isn’t music; rap culture is disgusting and degrading; rap creates racial stereotypes and revels in them.”


3. On Columbus day last year, he posted a video depicting Native Americans as cannibals whose major cultural achievement was the tomahawk, before Columbus came and brought them a superior culture. (This is the same belief as the Proud Boys, which you agree we can call Nazis)

4.
“Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage.”


5.
“the Palestinian Arab population is rotten to the core”


6.
He has advocated for the forcible removal of Palestinian Arabs from Israel--a plan that is illegal under international law, and that Yousef Jabareen, a legislator in Israel's Knesset, described as "war crimes".
“It’s an ugly solution, but it is the only solution. … It’s time to stop being squeamish. Jews are not Nazis. Transfer is not genocide. And anything else isn’t a solution.”


He has celebrated the deaths of black victims of white supremacy

7.
Trayvon Martin would have turned 21 today if he hadn't taken a man's head and beaten it on the pavement before being shot.


8.
Rodney King found dead at bottom of pool. Must have been Mark Fuhrman and the racist LAPD.


9. He has perpetuated anti-scientific, false myths about Trans people, including that their high suicide rate is because of their own mental illness, and that the high levels of bullying, assault, and murder they experience have no effect on them.

“The Transgender Suicide rate is 40%. It’s 40%. According to the Anderson School of UCLA, it makes no difference, it’s a study that came out last year, it makes no difference… virtually no difference, statistically speaking, as to whether people recognize you as a transgender person or not. Which suggests that there is a very high comorbidity between transgenderism, whatever that mental state may be, and suicidality. That has nothing to do with how society treats you.”


He has compared Obama supporters to Nazis:

10.
"Why in the world should we be excited about young Americans defining our politics? No political mass movement led by young people has ever resulted in good. … Nazism became popular among the youth before it became the German national theology.”


11.
He called George Soros--who was a holocaust survivor as a child (he was 15 when the original nazis were squashed)--a nazi collaborator (that's the meaning of kapo)
Btw, @mmfa might want to quiz its chief funder, George Soros, on being a kapo.


12.
He called Obama a fascist
Obama upset that democracy isn't a big set of soldiers he can play with. This speech was the fascist mentality in action.


13.
“President Obama is, however, a man who embodies all the personal characteristics of a fascist leader, right down to the arrogant chin-up head tilt he utilizes when waiting for applause.”


14.
“Obama, the Man of Tolerance, an anti-Semite?

Yes. An anti-Semite.”


---

So yes, it's safe to say that Ben Shapiro espouses many, many white supremacists myths and views. It's fair to call him racist, homophobic.

It's frankly ridiculous to pretend that just because someone is a practicing Orthodox Jew they can't also be a purveyor of racial hate.

---

Here's another interesting story.

Have you ever heard of Viktor Yanukovych? He was President of Ukraine from 2010 to 2014. He's also on several national and international courts most-wanted lists for corruption, $2 billion of bribery, mass-murder of civilians, and treason. He's also sanctioned by the US.

Guess who was his political advisor? Paul Manafort.

Interestingly, in Paul Manafort's plea deal, he admits that he conspired to push false stories about Yanukovych's political opponent, Yulia Tymoshenko (who was a political prisoner, who was later cleared of the politically motivated crimes), including claiming that she was part of a neo-nazi movement.

The real issue is that Putin and his Russian oligarch cohorts (whose money comes from Russian mafia, underage sex-slave trafficking, and other heinous (****)), want a pro-Russia, anti-EU candidate like Yanukovych, not a pro-EU person like Tymoshenko.

It's the cold war, continued.

Guess who was the journalist who spread Manafort's Russian propaganda story on his behalf? Ben Shapiro.

---

Ben Shapiro is a contemptible person. He's a pawn of Putin's Russian propaganda, which pushes conspiracy theories, and courts white supremacy.

---

This sounds crazy, because it is crazy. People have lost their minds. But everything I've said above is cold, hard, verifiable, objective fact. No conspiracy theory involved.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:24 pm

I had a longer post prepared, but decided it's probably not worth it. Suffice it to say, I disagree with you on many things. I don't think Ben Shapiro is a Nazi, and I don't think the "evidence" you showed means he's a "white-supremacist" by any stretch of the imagination. I think it shows he has different views than you do, and that's okay.

I do think that people who act and think like you do are a large part of the problem. You try to censer opinions other than your own by wielding terms like "nazi" and "nazi-defender" more loosely than I've ever seen them be wielded. I can only assume it's a defense-mechanism to keep your current worldview intact. People can hold varying views on political topics, religious topics, and sexual/gender topics, without being "racist," "prejudice" or whatever other epithet you choose to use.

There is a hateful way to hold views, and there is a non-hateful way to hold views. But you have blurred these lines to the point that they are non-existent. You have shrunk the Overton Window so much that everyone basically needs to be a leftist to get through. This is both myopic and infantile, in my opinion.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Takamba » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:14 pm

And now a word from our sponsor:

“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” - Aristotle

And now back to your regular programming...
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:14 pm

Yes, exactly. In all of my fumbling and waffling through my last post and its deleted forerunner, that's precisely what I'm trying to say.

Gosh, this thread has left me quite uneasy. I suppose I'm just not accustomed to the insanity that is the Internet in 2018 (I don't typically engage online). I've literally never been called a Nazi or a "Nazi-defender" in my entire life, and suddenly I feel thrown into an eggshell filled world where I'm trying to tip-tow around... the irony, of course, is that this "eggshell filled world" is a Thelemic forum! How the hell did that happen?? Out of all the places one should be able to have rational discourse, shouldn't a Thelemic circle be one of them??

Ah well.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:50 am

What kind of self-centered victim complex makes a person come into a thread where someone has been called faggot by a nazi, decide to criticize to the person who was called a faggot, and then get hurt feelings for being called a nazi defender?

You've been projecting on me this whole time, saying that I'm angry, irrational, that this is an eggshell-filled world. But if you look at how you specifically derailed this conversation and made about your hurt feelings about being called a nazi defender for defending a nazi, we can see who is really requesting the eggshell-filled world.

Hint: it's not me. If nazis want to keep their mouth shut and not try to make nazi policies happen, I'm happy to be polite. If they want to be hurl slurs, be violent, or affect politics, that's ok too. In return, I will call them names, violently defend people against their attacks, and be as political as hell.

No eggshells requested by me. I'm up for a fight.

You, on the other hand, would like to be able to go around criticizing people without being criticized back. In fact, you're offended that it happened.

Tough.

Go be mad. Be a hyper-sensitive victim. I don't care.

---

I do take back calling you a nazi defender, since you called it out as contemptible behavior. Up until then, the label fit. You're not a nazi defender, even if I believe you are an unwitting apologist for a white supremacist political status quo.

I'm sure I'm an unwitting apologist for stupid things now, as I have been in the past. Specifically--I have been an unwitting apologist for misogynistic conditions in my family's religion as a teenager. I didn't think I was a chauvinist or a chauvinist defender at the time. But with time and greater perspective, I see that I was both.

So I don't hate you. I'm not even slightly mad at you, or Mercurius, or anyone, in spite of people presuming to tell me that I'm angry. You're just behaving as ordinary humans behave, in blind self-interest.

I do get angry sometimes, but not at chickenshit like being sent a picture and called a faggot by a loser online. My attitude in this thread is one of joy. I enjoy making fun of nazis. They are such losers, it's like watching a real life slapstick comedy, without the guilt.

It's delicious Schadenfreude!

---

This isn't a debate about whether Ben Shapiro--whose political opinions on race relations just happen to line up perfectly with the Proud Boys and other Nazi groups--is or isn't a Nazi. I can agree to disagree with you on that. I don't think you're crazy for your opinion, because it's the convenient decision designed for you (by Russian money). That's what humans do.

It would be nice if you educated yourself, though. But that's only if you want to.

If you want to be productive and helpful, you go read an article about the deliberate way the alt-right engages in deniable racism:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... us-bigotry

and this article and book on white fragility
https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-tu ... ing-racism
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Re: Harassment

Postby Takamba » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:46 am

You've admitted to being a chauvinist. Aww. Perhaps the growing can begin.

" Yea! deem not of change: ye shall be as ye are, & not other. Therefore the kings of the earth shall be Kings for ever: the slaves shall serve. There is none that shall be cast down or lifted up: all is ever as it was. Yet there are masked ones my servants: it may be that yonder beggar is a King. A King may choose his garment as he will: there is no certain test: but a beggar cannot hide his poverty.
Beware therefore! Love all, lest perchance is a King concealed! Say you so? Fool! If he be a King, thou canst not hurt him.
Therefore strike hard & low, and to hell with them, master!
There is a light before thine eyes, o prophet, a light undesired, most desirable.
I am uplifted in thine heart; and the kisses of the stars rain hard upon thy body.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:29 pm

Right, I'm the one with a victim complex when you literally started a thread called "harassment" when someone sent you a PM calling you a name. I've been called names before, and I never felt the need to show the world.

I love how even in your explanation of events, you're acting like someone called you a faggot IN THIS THREAD. Pretending that you didn't start the thread to showcase someone sending you a one word PM.

I'm the one who wants egg-shells on the floor? Really?? But yet I'm the one projecting...

Right, you're not angry... This is how you act when you're joyous, sure. You must be an absolute blast at parties.

I don't think I'm the one needing to educate myself (by reading articles from the newyorker and the guardian :lol:). You've been swallowed up by the culture around you, getting outraged at the drop of a hat and calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi, so I suggest you should be the one to come outside your delicate bubble.

I also love how you just jump at the first moment you see to try to shift the weak card onto me. You've been the pansy the entire thread, and I show an ounce of vulnerability and you so quickly try to pass your fragility off on me.

Ah well... Have fun being "woke."
Last edited by Luce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:17 pm

You've been the pansy the entire thread


There it is.

Bigots can't help themselves.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:49 pm

Right, you aren't the one spreading eggshells on the floor, but yet I'm a "bigot" for using a word that is literally used in modern-day kids' movies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG2iSRPF8K0
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:01 pm

OMG, is this not the DEFINITION of walking on eggshells?? Now I Google it and find out that, according to the Macmillan Dictionary, the word "pansy" means either:

INFORMAL an insulting word for a man who is weak or easily afraid. Someone who is not brave or willing to take risks. (synonyms: coward, baby, chicken.)

or it means:

OFFENSIVE an offensive word for a gay man.


https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dic ... tish/pansy

But naturally, you assume I'm using it in the offensive way, because that's the mindset of one who throws egg-shells all over the room. I didn't even know that word had a meaning related to sexuality. But now I suppose I need to adjust my language because of egg-shell throwers like yourself, even though I chiefly remember this word from MADAGASCAR, in the clip shared in my previous post.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:03 pm

Thank you though, for showing up to be the entertainment, and proving how weak you are. :lol:

Thanks for your cartoon link. I know reading is hard for weak-minded bigots, so I'm glad you have cartoons.

But I'm sorry to inform you that it's not a real source.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pansy
Slang .
Extremely Disparaging and Offensive .a contemptuous term used to refer to a male homosexual.
Offensive .a weak, effeminate, and often cowardly man.


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pansy
2a disparaging + offensive : a weak or effeminate man or boy
b disparaging + offensive : a male homosexual


---

Gosh, bigots are so much fun! They're all so weak-willed. All you have to do is point out how fragile they are, and they get super mad and start using slurs. :lol:

Please, keep posting, Luce! It's fun how sad and predictable you are..

Gosh! I might not be fun at parties! :lol:
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:10 pm

Oh, goodness! You *did* learn the word from a cartoon! :lol:

I'm gasping for air over here.

Seriously, Luce, thank you! I had no idea when I started this thread to mock nazis and bigots it would turn out this fun.

For a second, I almost felt bad for you, too. And then you turned around and lost your cool, and proved that you were every bit as much of a homophobic bigot as I initially imagined.

*pelts you with eggshells* :lol:
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Re: Harassment

Postby Takamba » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:59 pm

What a bunch of name callers!
Who you calling a name caller?
You're a name caller!
No, you're a name caller!
NO! YOU'RE A NAME CALLER!
EFF YOU YOU NAME CALLER!!
Who you calling a ewe you?
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:12 pm

Ah yes, takamba, the guy who kept going on and on about libtards with nanny state mommy issues. When I served you your own medicine you lost your cool and used the n-word.

:lol:

Lordy you're fun!
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:13 pm

I literally posted a dictionary as my source. I merely showed a cartoon to show how non-offensive the word is, if it's used in children's movies.

And gosh, your comprehension skills are bad. I didn't say I LEARNED the word "pansy" from a cartoon (though so what if I did? It's a slur!).

Even in your own source you posted, it shows that one of the meanings is a weak man! Apparently you can't even read your own posts...

*sigh*. And now, because I used the word "pansy" (which, from the context I used it in, clearly implies I was using it in the "weak" way and not the "homosexual" way), means I'm a "homosexual bigot." I think I would literally kill myself if I had a mind as (****)-poor as yours. (not telling you to do that, of course. Unlike you, I try to give at least a modicum of respect to people with whom I disagree).

Maybe I wouldn't kill myself if I had such a mind, though... I mean, it's not just your lack of education and general logic that's the problem; it's that it's also coupled with anger, vitriol, and hatred. That, all together, is one of the worst combinations imaginable.

Today during meditation, it struck me suddenly as to why you even made this thread in the first place. You WANTED to virtue-signal. You wanted someone that you could call a Nazi, and so because I disagreed with you (not even, if you remember I merely questioned you making fun of someone overdosing and dying), you exploded and started swinging at me. Anyone reading this thread in its entirety can see how you have been poking and prodding from the beginning, just itching to show you're "morally superior." It must be really sad to be you.

I mean, why else make a thread like this?? You're clearly trying to be inflammatory so you can get into a fight. I, unfortunately, didn't know you were that kind of person. Now I do. I think I remember reading a while back that you were going through a divorce... I don't know if that's what led to all this anger or what. I hope you can work through it, and I'm not saying that to be a dick. I really mean it. I remember reading your posts before and thinking that you were a sincere seeker on the spiritual path. From more recent threads, it seems like something has switched. I hope you can switch it back. Not trying to play armchair psychologist here, but it really does seem like something is wrong within you, more than just the average "issues" that we all go through.

Coincidentally, I was on YouTube and saw a Joe Rogan interview with Gavin McInnes. I listened to most of it and he didn't even remotely seem like a Nazi or a white-supremacist. Doesn't mean I agree with him on everything, and I haven't had any exposure to him outside of this podcast, but it does make me wonder if you're just a lunatic. Of course, there's a large chance you also think Joe Rogan is a Nazi. Either way, I'd much rather grab a beer with Joe and Gavin than with you.

Have fun being entertained. Because it DEFINITELY seems like you're "having fun" in this thread. For sure.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:14 am

Yes, you're finally getting it, though I've been stating it clearly the whole time: THIS THREAD IS TO MOCK NAZIS

No, it's not virtue signaling. I'm not virtuous. I'm an {***hole}. It doesn't take a saint to MOCK NAZIS.

You're upset because you came in defending nazis, and got mocked. My "eggshell throwing" must have really hurt you. :lol:

Here's Gavin, the guy you have a crush on:

“We will kill you. That’s the Proud Boys in a nutshell. We will kill you”

“get back to this era where you could insult someone’s religion, you could insult their ethnicity, you could insult everything about them.”

Image

And here's you
I'm SMART! I think this Nazi is ok because I think he'd be fun to have a beer with!

Image

Please keep posting, it just keeps getting better. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm so happy that you're superior intelligence made you become a nazi lover. I would rather you grabbed a beer with Gavin too! Even if neither of them would invite you.. :lol:

I don't drink with nazi lovers.

Yes, I changed in this forum. I wonder what could have caused it. (Hint: IDIOT NAZIS)

You used to like me until I started attacking nazis. Got it. :lol:
And in this thread, you've gone from being a nazi hater to a nazi lover. Got it. :lol:

I will gladly go back to being my polite spiritual seeker self as soon as the nazis and their idiot defenders are done. Until then, I'm going to be the "eggshell thrower".

Can't wait to see your next post!

FYI this weekend some of my SJW friends and I are getting together to drink beers and read your posts, and laugh. So if you could post something extra mean, that would be appreciated. Talk about how I'm dumb, unhinged, maybe throw in a few slurs you learned from a cartoon.

Also, you have any nazi friends who can read, and actually want to grab a beer with so you can read my posts and laugh? If so, can we get a group photo?
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:40 am

Are you confused yet, pansy?

Image
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:01 pm

I'm not confused, in general.

But I do wonder why you would post a slur and a picture of a dumb nazi, a dead nazi, and a jailed nazi, but be so cowardly as to pretend to not to be a nazi. Maybe you're confused?

You must be genetically superior, and my intellectual superior. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:03 pm

Luce wrote:Please dead junky nazi, and brawling felon nazi punk, can I have a beer with you guys! I'm smart too!

:lol:
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:47 pm

"Please dead junky nazi, and brawling felon nazi punk, can I have a beer with you guys! I'm smart too!"

Wait, so you DO think that Joe Rogan is a Nazi??? :shock: Because I only said I'd rather grab a beer with Joe Rogan and Gavin instead of you (not because I agree or disagree with either of them, but because they seem interesting).

You have problems comprehending things, but for those reading this thread, I'd like to correct pseudo-pseudo-Benjamin's portrayal and caricature of me: I'm not homophobic, I'm not a racist, and I'm not a Nazi or a Nazi-defender. Nowhere did I say I support Gavin -- I specifically said my only exposure to him was on the Joe Rogan podcast, and that on that podcast he didn't say anything to make me think he was a Nazi or a white-supremacist. Also, I had no idea the word "pansy" could even be used as a slur for a homosexual man.

I've learned that the way we see the world is a commentary on ourselves. The fact that you're so focused on perseverating over Nazis and the Alt-Right says a lot more about you than it does about Nazis. Everyone hates Nazis, but most don't feel the need to make threads about it.

Does that make sense? Do you like child-molesters? Probably not. But are you making obsessive posts about child-molesters, constantly talking about them and obsessing about "making fun" of them? Why aren't you "making fun of stupid pedophiles?" Actually, you haven't said anything against pedophiles! You must be a pedophile-defender! But that's a bit of a segue; the point is, why are you so focused on Nazis, instead of all of the other things in the world? The answer to that question (the real answer, not the "rationalization" you undoubtedly have) will lead you out of this mess.

An ounce of introspection would go a long way.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:57 pm

I just found out that Pewdiepie just did a collaboration with Ben Shapiro. Lemme guess, like the Wall Street Journal, you think he's a Nazi, too, right?
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Re: Harassment

Postby mark0987 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:36 pm

it's that it's also coupled with anger, vitriol, and hatred. That, all together, is one of the worst combinations imaginable


And that combination is exactly what bigots dish out, it's hard not to react in the same way when you are on the receiving end of such abuse. It is hard not to reflect back what you receive, if someone walks up to you and says {****} you, you're hardly going to turn around and say nice to meet you. And again I will reiterate until you have been called a derogatory term which is meant to belittle you because of a feature you cannot help you will not understand the level of {******} off you can get.

I think you both need to take two steps back and breathe a little- the argument is getting rather circular, I have always thought if you can't argue without making ad-hominem attacks, getting angry, and generally speaking lots and saying little of novelty, the argument you are having is not worth your time.

You seem to be confused as to what the thread is about so I pose you both a question:

Av, why did you start this thread?

Luce, what compelled you to respond and argue?

Don't get nasty, don't speak with anger, don't write with contempt for the other- speak star to star, Thelemite to Thelemite, brother to brother (or whatever gender you are!). If you both open up a dialogue from equal ground, this thread might actually get somewhere and an understanding may be reached. The issues which have been highlighted in this thread are not simple, they are complex and fiery topics.

Bloody hell, if you can stomach reading the racist, homophobic, chauvinistic, bourgeoisie, unfiltered mess which was Aleister Crowley, I assume you can stomach each other!

Not every bigot is a nazi, every nazi is a bigot, some bigots are violent and could be equated to terrorists, some aren't at all violent, some aren't even vocal. Most people are a little bigoted in some way or another. Some people have been taught to be bigoted, some people do the teaching, and some people learn and see the error in their ways.

I don't think anger solves anything, it just begets more anger, as they say Love Trump's Hate. Or as Crowley said:

Be not hasty to condemn others; how knowest thou that in their place, thou couldest have resisted the temptation? And even were it so, why shouldst thou despise one who is weaker than thyself?


The temptation bigots face is the ability to play the blame game, to have a target for frustration. As he also said:

Intolerance is evidence of impotence.


There is a lot of impotency in this thread!
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