Harassment

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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:20 pm

Av, why did you start this thread?

How many times do I have to say it?

To mock nazis, to annoy nazis, to flush out bigots, and to slurp up all that yummy humiliation and anger, to energize me for some creative activities.

It's succeeding, I've had a very productive creative day as a result, and I'm not out of control or upset. It takes me about 30 seconds to reply. It's very much worth my time. Every time I reply, he gets madder, reveals what a tool he is, and I get more delicious energy.

:bat:

Yes, if you can stomach vile energy, you can transmute it into the Great Work.

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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:38 pm

And that combination is exactly what bigots dish out, it's hard not to react in the same way when you are on the receiving end of such abuse. It is hard not to reflect back what you receive, if someone walks up to you and says {****} you, you're hardly going to turn around and say nice to meet you. And again I will reiterate until you have been called a derogatory term which is meant to belittle you because of a feature you cannot help you will not understand the level of {******} off you can get.


Why do you assume I haven't? I think that's a bit presumptuous.

Also, I understand it's hard not to reflect back what you receive, but I wasn't the one who dished out hatred. Apparently Mercurius did, and whatever other "nazis" Av has been dealing with. Not me.

Look back at the beginning of this thread. I really don't think I was dishing out hate or bigotry or anything even resembling either of those things. So what, I'm just supposed to accept being Av's punching bag? Because it seems like you're saying he's responding with hate and ignorance because he has received such, but he didn't receive it from me... so he's just taking it out on me, which hardly seems rational or fair. And I understand that emotions aren't necessarily rational, but still: I'm having a tough time seeing Av's point of view when rereading this thread. I'm really not sure why I became the target of his anger, save for my theory that he started this thread in the hopes that if he said a slew of inflammatory comments, someone would take the bait and he could feel "more woke."

Honestly, if I had read the other threads first, seeing how this has happened to other people, then I would have recognized the trap. But I hadn't read the others threads at that point, and didn't realize Av had gone through this... change.

Luce, what compelled you to respond and argue?


Two reasons.

First of all, I was genuinely curious. I didn't know who the people in the picture were, I had never heard of the Proud Boys, and wanted to know what was going on.

Secondly, I was a bit shocked at seeing a senior member of this forum make fun of someone's friend dying from a drug overdose. It just seemed uncouth. I wanted to know why he did it, and if it was justifiable (maybe he was a murderer or something, or maybe he personally did something to Av). I didn't have it set in my mind to condemn; as I said, there could have been extenuating circumstances that warranted such a ostensibly crass comment.

Look through this thread and you'll see exactly what I described: me genuinely being curious as to the situation, while also being a bit shocked that someone whose posts I had previously enjoyed was saying something so callous, and wondering if there was justifiable context to it.

And somehow that turned into me being a Nazi-defender, and everything spiraled out of control from there.

Yes, if you can stomach vile energy, you can transmute it into the Great Work.


Yes, by your recent threads I can tell you're well on your way to completing it... :roll: If constantly fighting with people online and starting threads when they call you names counts as prosecuting the Great Work, then you're definitely an Adept.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:42 pm

Bloody hell, if you can stomach reading the racist, homophobic, chauvinistic, bourgeoisie, unfiltered mess which was Aleister Crowley, I assume you can stomach each other!


This is what has me so utterly perplexed. If Ben Shapiro is a Nazi because of the things he has said and written, how on earth is Crowley not a Nazi?? How can someone who simply cannot tolerate ideas contrary to their own, who has their Overton Window so narrow, read and appreciate Crowley??
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:49 pm

Not me.

You sent me almost the exact hate message Mercurius did. You just switched out "faggot" with "pansy".

I'm just supposed to accept being Av's punching bag?

It's just words. Do I have to walk on eggshells around you because you're sensitive?

you're definitely an Adept.

Thank you for recognizing it! And for your contribution today. I couldn't have done it without you.
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Re: Harassment

Postby mark0987 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:49 am

Why do you assume I haven't? I think that's a bit presumptuous.


Because that is the impression I get from you have written, it is an educated guess.

Also, I understand it's hard not to reflect back what you receive, but I wasn't the one who dished out hatred. Apparently Mercurius did, and whatever other "nazis" Av has been dealing with. Not me.


Again, wasn't referring to you. You said pansy, you claim it was not meant in the way it was taken, fair enough. As I said earlier, it is more about the intention of the use of the word rather than the word itself.

I'm having a tough time seeing Av's point of view when rereading this thread.


As was I at this stage, I believe it is essentially to troll the trollers. Outwit bigots at their own game, you have just got caught up in the middle of it.

I wanted to know why he did it, and if it was justifiable (maybe he was a murderer or something, or maybe he personally did something to Av).


Fair enough. Personally, I think it is justifiable given what the group stands for. Your ethical compass may differ.

This is what has me so utterly perplexed. If Ben Shapiro is a Nazi because of the things he has said and written, how on earth is Crowley not a Nazi?? How can someone who simply cannot tolerate ideas contrary to their own, who has their Overton Window so narrow, read and appreciate Crowley??


I agree, Crowley wasn't behind Hitler or the Nazis, but wrote some awful things about Jews which were in line with the propaganda circulating at the time about them. Crowley was a bigot by todays standards, but he was certainly not a nazi. And on some level I don't think he was even a bigot, he just liked to be inflammatory and used the racism of the day which wasn't deemed racist.

I just did a quick google search of Ben Shapiro, didn't see anything Nazi-ish, no heil Hitler or diatribes about Jews etc. But I did see some childish, pathetic, outdated, bigoted comments towards groups other than Jews. May not be a nazi, but he is definitely a modern bigot. He is definitely not someone I would share a drink with. Saying this I also saw some things which made sense.

Anyways, I'm going to stop following this thread now, it wasn't what I thought it was.

Have a great weekend both of you!
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Re: Harassment

Postby Takamba » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:44 am

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:It's just words. Do I have to walk on eggshells around you because you're sensitive?


Why did you start this thread? Because you got mad at someone you CLAIM threw words at you.


Full on hypocrisy now.
Why is this thread not in the "off topic" since it has been admitted by the OP that it was originally intended as off topic to the Temple of Thelema?
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:08 am

Mark, the only further thing I wanted to point out is that I didn't even use the word "pansy" until WAY after Av freaked out. So that doesn't really explain his reaction toward me...

And on some level I don't think he was even a bigot, he just liked to be inflammatory and used the racism of the day which wasn't deemed racist.


See, I feel like I would say a similar about Ben Shapiro (even though I don't think Ben says even 1% as bad as things as Crowley did... "woman are animals and only desire sex?" "Rape is not really so bad, because Rome was founded on it?" I don't even want to start listing the awful things I've seen Crowley write... But I think the lesson here is that we make excuses for people we like. I find Ben Shapiro to be incisive, logical, and clear-headed on most topics. So I likely make excuses for his flaws. And I think as you've demonstrated, we ALL seem to do that with Crowley. Even consider Gavin, the leader of the "Proud Boys." I don't know much about Gavin besides that podcast I saw, but I bet I could find worse Crowley quotes than Av could find Gavin quotes, and if given to a third-party who did not know either person, they would find Crowley more of a bigot.

Because that is the impression I get from you have written, it is an educated guess.


I find it weird you can make an educated guess like that. I mean, would you make one about Ben Shapiro? Probably. But, as I mentioned, he was subject to the most Anti-Semitic tweets in 2016 by a LONG SHOT.

Just because someone is against labeling everyone Nazis, doesn't mean they haven't been victims of those actual Nazis! In fact, I think those who were victims would be even more opposed to spreading the deserved label to the undeserved.

And Av, since you're claiming that your justification for taking your ire out on me is me using the word "pansy," I will point out to you that I started stooping to your level with name-calling WAY after you exploded. So clearly that wasn't why I was the target of your wrath. As to the "they're only words" thing, I think Takamba handled that quite nicely.

But yeah, this thread should definitely be put into Off-Topic. Or burned.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:59 pm

Luce,

Every act is a magical act. After receiving hate mail from an avowed nazi, I decided to create a thread to mock Nazis, and use the anger from them and channel it into my creative pursuit.

You interfered.

Probably because:
(1) you are a Christian, are having a hard time accepting Thelema (including the idea of "do what thou wilt"), and presumed you knew how I should act better than me
(2) you have personal experience with opiate addiction, so you got triggered by me making fun of a dead, self-avowed nazi junkie
(3) you have a personal problem with not being able to control yourself from debating

No one made you post in the thread but you. No one made you keep posting. No one made you use slurs.

So I ate your energy for lunch, and made some art with it.

Thank you.

Now if you want to continue sending your energy this way, I'm happy to keep riling up you up, and harvesting it.

Do what thou wilt.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:10 pm

Takamba wrote:Why did you start this thread? Because you got mad at someone you CLAIM threw words at you.


Full on hypocrisy now.
Why is this thread not in the "off topic" since it has been admitted by the OP that it was originally intended as off topic to the Temple of Thelema?

Takamba,

I'm not mad. I'm grateful, and entertained.

And no it's not hypocrisy. It's meritocracy. People aren't born acting like nazis. It's a behavior. Making fun of people for behaving like cretins is a different world from making fun of people for being gay, or black, or arab, or jewish.

The only reason people confuse the two is because they are attached to and identify with the bigoted behavior they engage in.

I see that you're calling for the silencing of me, but don't seem bothered that nazis are sending forum users hate messages. How interesting. :lol:

Would you like to interfere in this thread some more? I have some more creative projects I'm working on this weekend, and could use your alt-right anger to feed it.

Come on snowflakes, tell daddy you're mad at him for verbally abusing violent nazis, and their clueless flying monkeys who can't help howling with rage when he says that nazis are scum.

---

By your continuing to post, you are showing that you are wishing to feed my thread, which was created with the intent of harvesting your negative emotions in service of my will.

I know you have a hard time seeing that because you've deluded yourself into thinking I'm dumber/angrier/less-enlightened than you. But I'm speaking plainly and sincerely, and so it's on you if you keep ignoring me, and continue to sacrifice your energy for my cause.

Sincerest gratitude!
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:11 pm

Have a great weekend both of you!


You too! :angel:
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:33 pm

So I ate your energy for lunch, and made some art with it.


I'd LOVE to see it. I'm sure it's... inspired?

"Ate your energy"? What a nutcase...

I have a hard time accepting that someone so emotional, so hypocritical, so mentally jejune, and so hateful, could have an iota of an idea as to his or her "true will." What would it look like when that person attempted such a feat without undergoing basic education, introspection, and self-work? Well, it probably looks like making shitty art while obsessing over "nazis" and "bigots," all while playing the virtue Olympics. (Hmm, since you're obsessing over me, aren't I the one "eating your energy?" :lol:)

So I guess I did learn something from this thread... That a little Thelema can be a dangerous thing, and that even one of the most brilliant philosophies can be co-opted by people not worthy of possessing even a fraction of it.

When I discovered Crowley, I just assumed that everyone who identified as a Thelemite would be intelligent, self-aware, and prone to introspection. You're not the first person I've encountered who has shattered that idea...
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:38 pm

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:Making fun of people for behaving like cretins ....


WHOA, probe a bigot long enough and his bigotry comes out!!

From the dictionary:

"cretin: a person who is deformed and mentally handicapped because of congenital thyroid deficiency."

Yikes!
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Re: Harassment

Postby Takamba » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:30 pm

When did I say Av should be silenced?
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:28 pm

Forgive me, Luce, I learned the word from a cartoon and don't know what it means.

But I'm dumb, so how could I be anti-dumb, right? That wouldn't make sense.

Yes, I'm obsessed with you. These 30-second posts are a a big part of my day, and you're totally not also posting in this silly circular name calling thread because you're above it.

My favorite part is when I said you were acting like a cretin and you started using bigger words.
I appreciate the responsiveness and effort.

I'm spiritually more advanced than you. And probabily have better hygiene. Can you debate me on these points next? I need some more of your life energy for my shitty art.

I'm honored that you've chosen to invest in my art this way.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:35 pm

Takamba, you've sat through so many strange threads full of slurs and Nazis and nonsense, but mine is the OT one?

I'm demonstrating real time transmutation of your and Luce's "superior" (****)-flinging, pee-pee measuring inanity and channeling into something better.

It's very on-topic.

It's powerful and compelling, and the proof is that it's compelling you two to keep contributing.

I'm honored.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:03 pm

Luce,

I think we can settle this with a very simple but clear demonstration of my magical ability.

If you're not too afraid to prove me right, think of a number between 1 and 1,000 and let me know when you have chosen it.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:12 pm

Tonight, it was revealed to me what the point of this thread was (for my involvement with it). I've gotten what I need out of this, so I'm not going to keep arguing with you.

But, you have me intrigued with this whole "pick a number thing" (unless this is a set-up to some kind of joke?). But if it's not, I've chosen my number.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:51 am

Luce wrote:I've chosen my number.

Thank you!
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Wait, is this going somewhere?
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:26 pm

It did.

Magic is causing change in conformity with our will. In this case, I had you think up a number to demonstrate that your posts in this thread are serving my will.

Thank you for following directions!
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:20 pm

What on earth?? So much for your magical powers... :lol: :lol: I'm going to go up to people on the street and say "I'm going to demonstrate my magical powers to you... choose a number between 1 and 1000." And then when they say "okay," I'll say "BEHOLD MY MAGIC! YOU CHOSE A NUMBER!" and walk away.

If those are magical powers, then I guess I'm doing magic continually in this thread... because I keep getting you to respond just as much as you get me to respond! :lol:

But like I said, I realized the point of this thread for me, so I'm finished arguing with you. Good luck with your "magic powers". I'll keep on pursuing, y'know, the real ones, instead of the fake ones you have :D
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:59 pm

You almost have the idea, but then you lost it.

The secret is intent.

If you had been intending to get me to reply to serve a purpose, it would have been one thing.

But you've posted here because you can't help debating, and you had an emotional reaction to me making fun of a dead junky.

You can't help yourself, and you've invested emotional energy, and still are. Even after you've been told that your continued posting is an investment of your energy to serve my will.

You're free to go.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Luce » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:48 pm

Just because you say something, doesn't make it a thing.

But if you think it does...

How about this? Every time you breathe, from this moment on, you're obeying my will. I command you to breathe -- this is my intention. Every single breath you take from this moment on will be in service to me. I will feed off your energy and use it for my purposes, and each and every breath you inhale will only make me stronger and you weaker, until your bones rot and your eyes become sunken, until your flesh withers and your hair turns gray, until nothing remains.

With each and every breath you take.

Keep breathing, baby. :twisted:
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Re: Harassment

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:03 am

How about this?

Nah.

You're desire to imitate me is touching.

But you don't know how magic works. You were the guy who wanted to be in the A:.A:. but have them use Jesus' name in all the rituals. :lol:

Words create magick, but you have to use the right ones. And we both know that your cartoon English isn't up to snuff.

Which is good, because if you actually had the ability to do that magick, the karmic blowback on you would be deadly.

See, you have free will to not post in my Nazi solve et coagula meat grinder. My magic is conditioned on your choices. Only by willfully choosing to post have you activated the machine that takes your nazi-fanboy know-it-all debater energy and turns it into something worthwhile.

You, on the other hand said something that doesn't allow for free will.

So, number 1, it doesn't work like that. I don't give you my breaths. And number 2, if you could get it working you wouldn't be able to post.

Don't you think it's odd that Mercurius hasn't showed up on this thread and on this forum?

And did you notice that in the picture with two Proud Boy "thelemites"? That one is dead, and the other is arrested within a week of me receiving the message?

Out of consideration to you, I won't post any more in this thread. You keep letting yourself get egged on, and this won't end well.

Good bye.
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Re: Harassment

Postby Takamba » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:33 am

It's all about intent? HAHAHA

From the Master
"Remember, also, that, unless you know what your true will is, you may be devoting the most laudable energies to destroying yourself. Remember that every word and deed is a witness to thought, that therefore your mind must be perfectly organized, its sole duty to interpret circumstances in terms of the Will so that speech and action may be rightly directed to express the Will appropriately to the occasion. Remember that every word and deed which is not a definite expression of your Will counts against it, indifference worse than hostility. Your enemy is at least interested in you: you may make him your friend as you never can do with a neutral. Remember that Magick is the Art of Life, therefore of causing change in accordance with Will; therefore its law is "love under will", and its every movement is an act of love."
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