Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby axismundi » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:38 am

The fondue pot suggestion is very useful thank you.

I usually use dittany of Crete and a fan employed by my glamorous assistant (wife), along with some appropriate oil evaporated in the triangle. Making a load of accumulator and evaporating it using a fondue pot in the triangle of art sounds more practical and probably more economic.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby HounganRocky » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:43 pm

axismundi wrote:The fondue pot suggestion is very useful thank you.

I usually use dittany of Crete and a fan employed by my glamorous assistant (wife), along with some appropriate oil evaporated in the triangle. Making a load of accumulator and evaporating it using a fondue pot in the triangle of art sounds more practical and probably more economic.


I would use a high proof grain spirit to "stretch" the dittany of Crete. It will also create a nice cloud of steam that should last the duration of the evocation.

NOTE: You only need to use the fondue pot at the actual point in the ceremony that you call the spirit. From personal experience Lavendar works very well for inducing manifestation. Even if you simply have a lavendar plant in the temple it will aide in manifestation.

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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby gmugmble » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:19 pm

A bit late, but here's a nice essay on what "theurgy" means: http://www.jwmt.org/v3n24/feliciano.html.
-- Robert W

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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby axismundi » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:49 am

I am thinking about this fondue idea and adding a magisterie or if I have enough a few drops of spagyric quintessence to the accumulator in the fondue pot.

Taking this to its logical extreme would visible appearance be more pronounced if even more potent Alchemical products were utilised I wonder.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby HounganRocky » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:54 pm

Taking this to its logical extreme would visible appearance be more pronounced if even more potent Alchemical products were utilised I wonder.


Yes.

There are more methods than just the fondue pot. I have been considering writing a book outlining these various methods that, to my knowledge, are previously unpublished. I have recipes for magic lamps that cause manifestation and many other projects. The spirits should me many ways of working with them before I became an houngan and the methods became, well, unnecessary.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby axismundi » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:52 am

Interesting.

The only useful stuff on using magic lamps I have encountered is on youtube. 11faustia11's stuff on the tepaphone. A positive use would be to shine the lamp on the triangle to help make a suitable environment in the area of the triangle. I really like your suggestion because it utilises say Alchemical products more efficiently and then perhaps just accumulator in the fondue pot.

You should really write the book I think. There are too many low level beginners books and not enough that encourage research at a higher level.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby HounganRocky » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:17 am

The magical lamps are closer to the style used in Hoodoo and Voodoo.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby axismundi » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:31 pm

HounganRocky wrote:The magical lamps are closer to the style used in Hoodoo and Voodoo.


I have only a slight theoretical knowledge of voodoo & hoodoo. It is interesting that magic lamps are used in it. I am assuming you mean the lamp-projector type things not merely coloured lamps, my mistake if I got that wrong.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby HounganRocky » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:45 pm

Imagine something more like a cauldron with a floating wick.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby HounganRocky » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:09 pm

The easiest way to see the spirit in Assiah is to have a human horse for the evocation, that's basically all that comprises Voodoo.

The trick that most Houngans know is how to keep the spirit from going bossale or "rough" when it's on the horse. The way Bartzebel behaved in Corwley's classic evocation is an example of a spirit getting rough. We have prayers, songs, and gestures that "cool" the temperament of the spirit so that it speaks intelligibly and not cause any harm.

More than likely, the part of the evocation where the spirit takes on human form in the Goetia is an obscured way of saying it has taken possession.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby Deus Ex Machina » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:32 am

kasper81 wrote:am not interested in voodoo at all, but thanks anyway


Thanks for letting us know.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby mark0987 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:51 am

The easiest way to see the spirit in Assiah is to have a human horse for the evocation, that's basically all that comprises Voodoo.


At first I was confused by a human horse, but is it a typo for human host? If not could you explain further.

Also what are the consequences of allowing such a spirit to 'possess' someone, isn't it dangerous?
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby HounganRocky » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:06 pm

At first I was confused by a human horse, but is it a typo for human host? If not could you explain further.


Horse is the term for a person who is able to be possessed. The spirit "rides" the head. To fully grasp the use of the word you would need to witness a spirit "jumping" on someone's head. It appears as though they have been struck in the head unexpectedly and they will be pitched about and stumble like a wild horse being tamed.

Also what are the consequences of allowing such a spirit to 'possess' someone, isn't it dangerous?


It can be extremely dangerous; the person could have a heart attack or a stroke if the spirit can't be tamed, if you are abusive towards the spirit it could even try to attack you.

am not interested in voodoo at all, but thanks anyway


I never assumed you did, I was simply pointing a method to manifesting a spirit in Assiah.
"You should know that I am a dangerous man."

"What did you dream about this afternoon? A woman in your arms? The sea at your doorstep? Nooooo! You dreamt of me and of the grave. I know because I was there."
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby mark0987 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:45 pm

93,

is it in accord with Thelema?. That is the question....imo. I know that sounds rude but there's no other way to put it. May need a whole new thread


I think anythings in accord with Thelema, as long as the spirit horse guy is willing to partake and knows the consequences who cares?

Crowley allowed Choronzon to take possession, or whatever of him, that sounds similar......

93's.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby axismundi » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:31 am

Is to better to have the spirit or entity appear visibly in the triangle or is it preferable for the spirit to posses a persons body.

I would say that it is better for the entity to appear visibly to the mk I eyeball for magick because it requires more preparation and training.

Having the spirit posses a person is more relevant when their is a stronger religious component because often the person who is to be possessed a 'horse', has a rare talent. It would be selfish to just do private work with such a person when the spirits can interact with a much larger group of people via a possessed person.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby HounganRocky » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:59 pm

axismundi wrote:Is to better to have the spirit or entity appear visibly in the triangle or is it preferable for the spirit to posses a persons body.

I would say that it is better for the entity to appear visibly to the mk I eyeball for magick because it requires more preparation and training.

Having the spirit posses a person is more relevant when their is a stronger religious component because often the person who is to be possessed a 'horse', has a rare talent. It would be selfish to just do private work with such a person when the spirits can interact with a much larger group of people via a possessed person.


Finally, someone that gets it.
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Re: Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?

Postby axismundi » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:33 pm

The problem for a lot of people is that magick and religion have become separate especially in countries that have had Christianity.

It is difficult for a lot of people to really take on board that magick and religion have usually been 'hand in glove'.
This is one of the reasons why Thelema is so valuable, it is a modern religious philosophy developed by a european and which fully integrates magick. People from other cultures which still have magick integral to religion have no difficulty with spirits appearing visibly etc even if the work they do is very empirical, a scientist for example.
Some of the issues and difficulties that have arisen on this thread are perhaps due to the barren spiritual heritage that rapidly fading Christianity has left behind.
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