Last resort magic?

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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:27 pm

kasper81 wrote:Just a reminder that this forum is about Thelema and True Will.

That's part of it. An important part. But you keep missing or denying or resisting the other part.

This forum is foremost about magick, mysticism, expanded consciousness, spiritual growth, deepening one's intimate connection to spiritual realities. Thelema is the method.

Again: Our first name is Temple. Our last name is Thelema. The first name is the particular purpose. The last name is the means.

You keep ignoring the first name and getting stuck on the last name.

PS - This site quite intentionally was not spun off of http://www.thelema.org (which we own and maintain), but was intentionally created with the name of a God. Think about that....
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:42 pm

kasper81 wrote:What a bunch of mystical crap that was. Honourable, but mystical. Karma? Past lives? Are you real?

Yes. Totally Kasper, the above almost got you a warning.

To be clear: The quote you disparage is from the founder of the College of Thelema and one of the founders of Temple of Thelema. That should at least give you some idea that the material cited is fundamental to what this forum exists to communicate.

That might be worth thinking about a bit, eh?

Wanna know what we're about? Read In the Continuum and Black Pearl. You don't have to agree - not at all! On the other hand, taking a persistently strident stand against nearly all fundamentals that C.O.T. and T.'.O.'.T.'. teaches does... tend to make your posts off-topic to the site by definition. Can you see that?
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:49 pm

Clean up completed. I regret that I had to cut some wonderful posts while removing the OT digression - but the marvelous posts were also OT. (And I cut several of mine as well. That's one of the risks of troll-feeding.)

A reminder: Other than minor, brief digressions, threads are expected to remain on the topic of the ORIGINAL post. If you want to change the subject, start a new thread. Everything (everything!) that I cut was because it was OT.
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Mephisto » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:47 pm

axismundi wrote:Going way back to the original OP question.

A friend of mine (sadly these days we meet less then once a year) said:

"A poor Magickian is a poor Magickian".

The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune can sometimes force us to perform last resort Magick. The Adept will obtain some kind of alleviation of the problem through applying Magick to the issue. However their may be underlying issues which have caused the problem to manifest. If this is so, the last resort Magick should serve only to provide a breathing space allowing the Adept to consider the broader context of the issue.

There are some things that last resort Magick is completely useless for: The HGA ordeal and especially the Oath of the Abyss for example.


Good points, my friend.

In my experience I've found that Magick is best used for no reason whatsoever. There is a certain joy in participating in the tides of nature and partaking of the company of the Gods. But what of the material realm? We are all going to run into problems in our quest to complete the Great Work. I see it as our divine right as Magicians to impose order on Chaos, and when this Chaos manifests itself in the material realm it is our right to master it. The problem arises when we are not working in harmony with our True Will. If one is not in harmony with their Will no expenditure of Magical Force will resolve the issue. So the problems arise from within and can usually be resolved not by practicing Magick with the aim of accomplishing a particular goal, but with the aim of perfecting ourselves as Aspirants and Individuals.
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby axismundi » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:18 am

Mephisto wrote:
axismundi wrote:Going way back to the original OP question.

A friend of mine (sadly these days we meet less then once a year) said:

"A poor Magickian is a poor Magickian".

The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune can sometimes force us to perform last resort Magick. The Adept will obtain some kind of alleviation of the problem through applying Magick to the issue. However their may be underlying issues which have caused the problem to manifest. If this is so, the last resort Magick should serve only to provide a breathing space allowing the Adept to consider the broader context of the issue.

There are some things that last resort Magick is completely useless for: The HGA ordeal and especially the Oath of the Abyss for example.


Good points, my friend.

In my experience I've found that Magick is best used for no reason whatsoever. There is a certain joy in participating in the tides of nature and partaking of the company of the Gods. But what of the material realm? We are all going to run into problems in our quest to complete the Great Work. I see it as our divine right as Magicians to impose order on Chaos, and when this Chaos manifests itself in the material realm it is our right to master it. The problem arises when we are not working in harmony with our True Will. If one is not in harmony with their Will no expenditure of Magical Force will resolve the issue. So the problems arise from within and can usually be resolved not by practicing Magick with the aim of accomplishing a particular goal, but with the aim of perfecting ourselves as Aspirants and Individuals.


Thank you you have struck to the heart of the issue.

It is true that any Magick that is not in accord with True Will or is not about aligning with True Will is at best a waste of energy. Yet I have to admit there have been times when the 'slings and arrows of outrageous fortune have lured me into doing such, well, I would say two times.

Not the best thing because although the eye of the hurricane is calm, the chaos that has been evoked around you is readily noticeable. With respect to the Yi King when 'PO' is drawn an interesting exercise is to counter- balance so that when the lines change to PO the material effect is 0. The joy of the dance.

I will think this over and return when I can articulate it better.
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Vadox » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:20 am

How it works: If you purpose is to have money or to have money to fulfill your purpose, you do the ritual that connects you astraly with people, groups, that might help you get money. For example that becomes easier to convince someone to loan his money to you or you even may get proposals you would never expect from that person. Considering that we are multi-dimensional living beeing mechanics become clear.
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Mephisto » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:36 pm

Vadox wrote:How it works: If you purpose is to have money or to have money to fulfill your purpose, you do the ritual that connects you astraly with people, groups, that might help you get money. For example that becomes easier to convince someone to loan his money to you or you even may get proposals you would never expect from that person. Considering that we are multi-dimensional living beeing mechanics become clear.


So, on this note, let me ask a question or series of questions that refer more to the practical side of the issue:

Say, for instance, there is a particular individual (definitely not me) who is absolutely at the end of their resources: broke, in debt, homeless, pretty much utterly down and out. All efforts at resolution/negotiation have failed. What would be a good Last Resort Magical Strategy for the resolution of said issues? Any particular Rituals or Planetary Energies I should get in touch with? This particular individual is pretty much dead in the water... The Cosmic S.O.S. either didn't reach the right people or was outright ignored due to some kind of karmic situation.

Usually this individual is too proud to admit defeat but at this point a little advice would be cool. :)
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Takamba » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:22 pm

Mephisto, that I wouldn't mess with. Let me tell you why and it's pretty simple. I'm the kind of guy that some might say is "too proud" to admit defeat. I don't think it's pride though for me, it's perspective. I'll concede to defeat in a game of chess or Axis & Allies or something where it is cut and dry, by life is full of nothing but opportunities. I've been homeless a few times, pretty much without a penny for a time as well, but I've never been resourceless. Now, on the other hand, if your friend is in his situation, not admitting "defeat," yet instead of seeing this as an opportunity but as a victimization, it's simply a matter of one's psychological character and for you - there's nothing you can do.

Burn all the candles you wish, petition Jupiter for fortune or Venus for income - but you can't fix the permanently broken.

And don't get me wrong - I didn't always get back up without a hand from a friend, and there was magick involved on my end and illogical results put me in possession of the house I have now, but all and all I credit my never say die attitude. Along with not putting the burden of blame on anyone else.

Something to think on.
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Fr Cognosco cum Lux » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:39 pm

Mephisto wrote:Say, for instance, there is a particular individual (definitely not me) who is absolutely at the end of their resources: broke, in debt, homeless, pretty much utterly down and out. All efforts at resolution/negotiation have failed. What would be a good Last Resort Magical Strategy for the resolution of said issues?

I disagree with Takamba when he says "permanently broken".

Being at the end of resources and broke and in debt and homeless is the strategy. I might ask how the person got to this state because it sounds like they have been calcinated. This step dissolution breaks down the artificial structures that have bound the person in the past in order for them to separate the fine from the gross in the next step.
My advice is for the person to submit entirely their will to their environment. Friends, Family, Strangers, God, etc.
This is the story of how they succeeded in the future.
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Mephisto » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:41 pm

All Aspirants eventually reach the point of "rock bottom."

To concede these things to you, my Brethren, is more so a gesture of solidarity than anything.

I have lived to the fullest the "lifestyle" represented by the Book of the Law. I have been a beggar--and a King thereby.

My only flaw was to admit weakness and defeat. I spake overmuch. :wink:

There are yet quite a few resources at my demand, and there is always the joy of battle. Thank you for your well wishing and so forth, but I have a job to do.

'Tis all good fun, good fun.
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Mephisto » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:03 pm

Takamba wrote:Something to think on.

Thanks. I appreciate the thoughts.

Kinda sucks right now.
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Re: Last resort magic?

Postby Angel of Death » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:34 am

Mephisto wrote:
Vadox wrote:How it works: If you purpose is to have money or to have money to fulfill your purpose, you do the ritual that connects you astraly with people, groups, that might help you get money. For example that becomes easier to convince someone to loan his money to you or you even may get proposals you would never expect from that person. Considering that we are multi-dimensional living beeing mechanics become clear.

So, on this note, let me ask a question or series of questions that refer more to the practical side of the issue:
Say, for instance, there is a particular individual (definitely not me) who is absolutely at the end of their resources: broke, in debt, homeless, pretty much utterly down and out. All efforts at resolution/negotiation have failed. What would be a good Last Resort Magical Strategy for the resolution of said issues? Any particular Rituals or Planetary Energies I should get in touch with? This particular individual is pretty much dead in the water... The Cosmic S.O.S. either didn't reach the right people or was outright ignored due to some kind of karmic situation.
Usually this individual is too proud to admit defeat but at this point a little advice would be cool. :)


I have been in this situation with people whom seemingly are at the bottom.

One of the things that has helped me in these times are the archetypal analogies presented in mythology.

One of the most powerful mythological stories is about Persephone and Hades. I have had some wonderful results in these situations by enacting these stories, relating them and bringing them to life so to speak.

The Queen of the Dead is such by Her Virtue of Rebirth. She hears all Prayers and deals Justice, wether it be by Mercy, or Severity.
I am sure that you are equipt to know how to petition Her, but if you would like some specifics I can give more details.
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