Ordeal of Demon Crowley

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Ordeal of Demon Crowley

Postby LD330 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:34 pm

"Since imitating the moral example of a founder is not the ethical teaching of the Law of Thelema, every Thelemite is free to imitate Aleister Crowley's personal lifestyle or not as they choose, although Crowley himself advises against it, warning that those who try to do so will be possessed or obsessed by the "vision of the demon Crowley" (Crowley, who was an amateur artist, even drew a sketch of this particular demon). Unfortunately, as the history of the Law of Thelema shows with great clarity, Crowley’s advice was accurate, and numerous heedless Thelemites have been devoured as a result."

"Aleister Crowley should be understood as a natural phenomenon, without moral judgment. A prophet is himself merely a symptom of the zeitgeist. A storm is not "evil.""

(Source: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/thelema.htm)

Does anyone have experience with this ordeal? I find myself projecting anything "bad" or repressed onto Crowley because I know he is Pan. My mind has done this in a couple of vivid dreams. I find this interesting because I don't understand it. Whenever I project something onto him it is more true of me than him.

I was going to make this a different thread about the "spell" that a lot of spiritual gurus put me under. Everything they say is very idealized and inspiring, but I don't think these people live up to their own ideals. L. Ron Hubbard and Rajneesh are two examples of these kinds of guru. Both are concerned about projecting a totally virtuous image, but both have done awful things. Not trying to knock these people, but it's hard for me to take what they say seriously after realizing it's all staged to seem a certain way. It makes me feel like they're not treating me as an equal if they have to use tricks on me.

I think this is an interesting paradox because you either get the ordeal of demon Crowley if you try to face the universe head-on with a guru, or you just get tricked. Sorry I don't really have a specific question, I'd just like to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
"People in this world look at things mistakenly, and think that what they do not understand must be the void. This is not the true void. It is bewilderment."
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Re: Ordeal of Demon Crowley

Postby Selene » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:35 am

I have never tried to imitate Crowley's lifestyle.
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Re: Ordeal of Demon Crowley

Postby GabrielO » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:41 pm

ld330 wrote:Whenever I project something onto him it is more true of me than him.


That's mostly true for projections in general in my opinion. You recognize the things in others that have some root in your own experiences and usual there is a value judgment that goes along with that. A good practice is to just observe what you recognize and separate yourself from it by your analysis. In this way it is possible to gain some separation and perspective about something especially if it bothers you.

ld330 wrote:I think this is an interesting paradox because you either get the ordeal of demon Crowley if you try to face the universe head-on with a guru, or you just get tricked.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. It sounds like you've had some experiences where you feel you've been taken advantage of by being tricked and you don't trust the guru's you've come into contact with. I guess the only thing I can say is to keep your skepticism close at hand and keep aware of your circumstances. There are a lot of sayings along the line of "by their works (fruits) you will know them". If you come across those you feel aren't for you then at the very least you can cross them off your list.

I've never sought out a Guru per se, but I did seek a System. Before doing so I read stuff, attended stuff, met people, and then made a decision. That is my personal experience.
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Re: Ordeal of Demon Crowley

Postby LD330 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:48 pm

Selene wrote:I have never tried to imitate Crowley's lifestyle.


I don't think it's necessarily about imitating Crowley's lifestyle, but I found it useful to look at his life as someone who is trying to do the same thing that you are (do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law).

GabrielO wrote:That's mostly true for projections in general in my opinion. You recognize the things in others that have some root in your own experiences and usual there is a value judgment that goes along with that. A good practice is to just observe what you recognize and separate yourself from it by your analysis. In this way it is possible to gain some separation and perspective about something especially if it bothers you.


I'm finally figuring out how to do this well by studying a little bit of the beginnings of psychology, recognizing things as neurotic. The idea of a value judgment is a very good point. There's a quote from Apocalypse Now that I was thinking about along those lines yesterday: "You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us."



GabrielO wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by this. It sounds like you've had some experiences where you feel you've been taken advantage of by being tricked and you don't trust the guru's you've come into contact with. I guess the only thing I can say is to keep your skepticism close at hand and keep aware of your circumstances. There are a lot of sayings along the line of "by their works (fruits) you will know them". If you come across those you feel aren't for you then at the very least you can cross them off your list.


I feel tricked by big name gurus doing things like photoshopping their pictures and lying to people. Like in the Ordeal of Ida Pendragon in one of the Equinox editions, the guy asks Ida why she's wearing perfume if she had a certain attainment. It's hard to know who to trust sometimes. :?
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Re: Ordeal of Demon Crowley

Postby Hermes » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:00 am

ld330 wrote:"Since imitating the moral example of a founder is not the ethical teaching of the Law of Thelema, every Thelemite is free to imitate Aleister Crowley's personal lifestyle or not as they choose, although Crowley himself advises against it, warning that those who try to do so will be possessed or obsessed by the "vision of the demon Crowley"

... Sorry I don't really have a specific question, I'd just like to hear anyone's thoughts on this.


Crowley had a very special lifestyle and destiny, so i guess anyone whose true will is not very similar/congruent to his would experience such identification as something verily demonic and Crowley as a Demon himself.

Also, what could be just as much demonic would be for someone who is actually very "similar" to Crowley(whose will and lifestyle are related/congruent). Because there the danger could be that the very similarity makes it way more easy to confuse respective wills and destinies.

I dont understand how Crowley could be a "Demon"in any way other than that. I think it could be said for anything and anyone, with the nuance Crowley has way beyond average psychological and spiritual impact potentially, as he's a prophet and a great man in many aspects.
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