"Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Q&A and discussion on ceremonial magick

Moderator: Moderators - Public

"Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby ThelemicMage » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:41 pm

On a train to India, AC devised a version of the supreme ritual of the Pentagram that flowed with the currents of the new Aeon.

He writes that one should use an inverted pentagram. Does this mean a standard inverted pentagram with fire still on the right side? I remember two versions, (in reality, four versions,) of the pentagram. One set was up/down inverted, the other set right-left inverted. I forget what one would call the latter. I could swear Jim named it once, however I am unable to find it with the search function.

Thanks,
Frank
“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

Love is the Law,

Hail Eris!
All Hail Discordia!!

Love under Will
User avatar
ThelemicMage
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 721
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:18 pm

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby GabrielO » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:21 am

Do you have the reference for where he wrote that (book and chapter/page)? I'm interested in looking it up and checking that out.
GabrielO
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:31 pm

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby GabrielO » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:24 am

Are you talking about Liber Reguli?

"LIBER V vel REGULI
A∴A∴ publication in Class D.
Being the Ritual of the Mark of the Beast: an incantation proper to invoke the Energies of the Aeon of Horus, adapted for the daily use of the Magician of whatever grade."
GabrielO
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:31 pm

Postby Hermitas » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:01 pm

Image

Please consider that on topic and worth a thousand other words.

Don't get stuck on the horns.

Just my two cents...
User avatar
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby GabrielO » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:27 pm

I was mostly looking for the context myself, mostly out of curiosity, because some of the description about left/right is something I haven't heard and I've never read it in anything Crowley wrote. Anyway - no bullfighting for me :lol:
GabrielO
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:31 pm

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Hermitas » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:55 pm

Well, "hindsight is 20/20" and all that, and I've doubted whether I should have created any kind of particular expectation for you or anyone else in you own experimentation.

But with this particular ritual... occasionally, you'll read someone pretty experienced and intelligent around here state the opinion that this particular ritual may be a nasty trap for... I don't know how to say it in my own words... people who don't know what they're doing... people who have this deep-seated belief that there's something to what Crowley promoted that was of the nature of those inverted pentagrams. And in that case, I thought it might not be so bad to at least give somebody a heads-up for what I found in it.

And I don't know for sure. Full disclosure: I never actually performed it myself. But I was so worried that there was something hidden or secret to be discovered there that I thought about it and analyzed it a lot... to the point where my own psyche kind of just asked me one day if I wanted to bite that particular apple, and I said yes to it. For me, sometimes that's all it takes. Don't know if that makes me weird. It just happens that way for me sometimes. And then... well, you see how I related to it. "Daily use" ...makes me chuckle a little now. Who knows, maybe I was way more sensitive to it than other people are. That's the part of the expectation I don't know would be true for everyone.

I'll go ahead and spill. To me, looking back, it seems to me that using those inverted pentagrams is like asking to be dominated by the elements. Then, to get back to sanity, you have to sort of tune in to the "energies of the Aeon of Horus" in order to set yourself free from that elemental dominance.

I actually learned a lot from it.

But it wasn't fun. More like fighting for my life (actually my sanity) while having confirmed to me that the energies of the Aeon of Horus are powerful to reestablish order to that chaos - to sort of set the pentagrams aright again. There was lots of synchronistic confirmation that this was what was happening. That part was actually amazing.

But I wouldn't say it's the kind of ritual that ...you know... promotes stability. More like playing 52-Card Pickup.

Or riding a bull.

"Daily use"... lol... smh.. Not this guy.
User avatar
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby GabrielO » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:59 pm

I tend to be cautious and pick and choose what I'm doing carefully for now. I do like reading/studying the different subjects though. Thanks for sharing your personal experience - its interesting to hear how the different rituals land on others in theory and practice.
GabrielO
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:31 pm

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby ThelemicMage » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:20 am

“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

Love is the Law,

Hail Eris!
All Hail Discordia!!

Love under Will
User avatar
ThelemicMage
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 721
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:18 pm

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Hermitas » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:27 am

Oh, okay, so it's not Reguli, but it still uses the inverted pentagrams.

Gotcha.
User avatar
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby ThelemicMage » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:53 pm

Yeah, and I thought I read Jim say something about it not being an "inverted" pentagram, but the inverted AND in.. somethinged pentagram, where left and right are inverted as well.

So that would make fire on the top left hand side.

Love is the Law,
Frank
“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

Love is the Law,

Hail Eris!
All Hail Discordia!!

Love under Will
User avatar
ThelemicMage
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 721
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:18 pm

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Los » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:31 pm

Legis wrote:it seems to me that using those inverted pentagrams is like asking to be dominated by the elements.


The problem is that it just "seems" that way to you.

The inverted pentagram actually represents the elements springing from spirit (or, alternatively, the elements as the "throne" of spirit). It affirms that the spirit dwells "beneath" (or, really, "behind") the elements.

But I wouldn't say it's the kind of ritual that ...you know... promotes stability.


Says the guy who freely admits that he never performed the ritual.

More like playing 52-Card Pickup.

Or riding a bull.

"Daily use"... lol... smh.. Not this guy.


Please. It's drawing a bunch of signs in the air and intoning a bunch of funny-sounding words. What do you think that's actually going to do, aside from making the operator look pretty damn silly?

If you're this afraid of prancing around a room and pretending to be a wizard, I'd hate to see how you react to something that actually warrants fear.

As an aside, Reguli was, at one time, part of my daily practice. It's a fine ritual, certainly nothing like the way you've been representing it on this thread. A tiny bit of experience in the things you talk about might help you see that.
Los
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:54 pm

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Hermitas » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:57 pm

I know what my fears were going in. I know what I learned passing through the experience.

People are different. People program themselves (or have been programmed by others) with different associations and expectations.

I had my own experience with it according to my own nature and expectations. I've described it, and that was what it was.
User avatar
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

"Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Hermitas » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:04 pm

"And then this happened."
User avatar
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Frater 639 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:52 pm

ThelemicMage wrote:He writes that one should use an inverted pentagram. Does this mean a standard inverted pentagram with fire still on the right side? I remember two versions, (in reality, four versions,) of the pentagram. One set was up/down inverted, the other set right-left inverted. I forget what one would call the latter. I could swear Jim named it once, however I am unable to find it with the search function.

I'm not sure what you mean by standard inversion -- I've only seen the one drawn in Liber V, where the elements are assigned to the same points in the averse as they are in the upright - e.g. from spirit to fire would be bottom to the upper left corner for fire (averse), top to the bottom right corner (upright) when invoking.

Los wrote:The inverted pentagram actually represents the elements springing from spirit (or, alternatively, the elements as the "throne" of spirit). It affirms that the spirit dwells "beneath" (or, really, "behind") the elements.

Spirit is an element...

The description above is vague and almost interchangable. It doesn't follow that the model presented "actually represents" anything...and frankly, it sounds a lot like bullshit.

Perhaps a more useful model would be where the magician stands when invoking these energies. A penatgram could look different as a reflection into Malkuth rather than how it actually appears "from above."

And it's probably even more useful to use a consciousness/subconsciousness model along with what is happening physiologically when performing XXV and V.

But with even more of the bullshit factor removed, how the environment and operator are responding to the ritual is extremely important - especially when using these during a general banishing/invocation preliminary for a specific working.

Building intellectual models in one's head of what the (****) represents in the ritual does not help raise the required energized enthusiasm for the operation, which is the most important aspect of the {*******} rituals. The symbols take care of themselves when the proper pitch is raised.

Los wrote:Please. It's drawing a bunch of signs in the air and intoning a bunch of funny-sounding words. What do you think that's actually going to do, aside from making the operator look pretty damn silly?

Good point. If one believes it's all silliness, I'm sure one will find that their results coincide with their belief.
Frater 639
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:08 am

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Tony DeLuce » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:31 pm

Los do you find it interesting that Liber V is not assigned anywhere in the A.'. A .'. curriculum?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Tony DeLuce
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:52 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Takamba » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:43 pm

"Good point. If one believes ****, I'm sure one will find that their results coincide with their belief."

But ye, o my people, rise up & awake!

(first ye rise, then ye wake)
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
User avatar
Takamba
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1331
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:19 pm

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Heru » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:11 am

Frater 639 wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by standard inversion -- I've only seen the one drawn in Liber V, where the elements are assigned to the same points in the averse as they are in the upright - e.g. from spirit to fire would be bottom to the upper left corner for fire (averse), top to the bottom right corner (upright) when invoking.

There's a small difference between the standard inverted pentagram and the averse pentagrams used in Reguli that may have symbolic importance. The inverted pentagram is merely a flipped image of the original, almost as if one were placing a mirror along the bottom two points of an upright pentgram and looking at the reflected image.

The averse pentagrams used in Reguli have been rotated 180 degrees. They have been averted or turned away.
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Frater 639 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:59 am

Tony DeLuce wrote:Los do you find it interesting that Liber V is not assigned anywhere in the A.'. A .'. curriculum?

That isn't true in all cases. It's usually assigned to the Zelator in my "lineage." I can't speak for all of them.

As far as the importance of the ritual, I know some believe it isn't beneficial. However, Crowley believed it to be important enough to put it in Book 4. To the ones who have questions about potency or importance, they should work with it and see for themselves - and not take anyone's teaching at face value.

Takamba wrote:(first ye rise, then ye wake)

:D

Heru wrote:There's a small difference between the standard inverted pentagram and the averse pentagrams used in Reguli that may have symbolic importance. The inverted pentagram is merely a flipped image of the original, almost as if one were placing a mirror along the bottom two points of an upright pentgram and looking at the reflected image.

Cool. I'm not familiar with an inverted pentagram - I'm pretty sure it isn't involved in any A.'.A.'. rituals. In any event, my point is not about the symbolism - which it is all very interesting - but in what the ritual is aiming to do in regard to raising energized enthusiasm. For starters, Liber V in particular has an incredible effect if someone was busy working with the Old Aeonic symbolism for many years...

Just like if a king 50 year-old was {*******} the Queen for two decades and then met a hot, young Princess. :lol:

Crowley wrote:It is therefore not quite certain in what the efficacy of conjurations really lies. The peculiar mental excitement required may even be aroused by the perception of the absurdity of the process, and the persistence in it, as when once FRATER PERDURABO (at the end of His magical resources) recited "From Greenland's Icy Mountains", and obtained His result.

It may be conceded in any case that the long strings of formidable words which roar and moan through so many conjurations have a real effect in exalting the consciousness of the magician to the proper pitch — that they should do so is no more extraordinary than music of any kind should do so.
Frater 639
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:08 am

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Tony DeLuce » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:01 am

Sorry I should have asked why didn't Crowley assign it as a practice in the A .'. A .'.?

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
Tony DeLuce
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:52 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Frater 639 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:23 am

Tony DeLuce wrote:Sorry I should have asked why didn't Crowley assign it as a practice in the A .'. A .'.?

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk


Perhaps "assign" is the incorrect word. Some official rituals are never assigned, they are chosen for use by the Aspirant according to their own will - they are not considered Tasks proper. Liber V is given for use by the 'Magician of whatever grade:'

an incantation proper to invoke the Energies of the Aeon of Horus, adapted for the daily use of the Magician of whatever grade.

However, given the Work of the Grade, it's fairly easy to see why Liber V can be particularly helpful to the Zelator...“to obtain control of the foundations of my own being.”
Frater 639
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:08 am

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Tony DeLuce » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:02 pm

Thanks. I always thought of Liber V as being a perfect example of what not to do in ritual :-) And for a certain type of temperament this would release a great deal of energy by performing it...

Also interesting that Crowley continued to use the Pentagram ritual throughout his life even after creating Liber V.

Does anyone have any evidence of Crowley actually ever performing this ritual on a regular basis?
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Tony DeLuce
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:52 am
Location: Southern CA

"Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Hermitas » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:08 pm

Some thoughts...

Liber 66 wrote: 34. I who reveal the ritual am IAO and OAI; the Right and the Averse.


Liber LXV wrote:54. Then said Adonai: Thou hast the Head of the Hawk, and thy Phallus is the Phallus of Asar. Thou knowest the white, and thou knowest the black, and thou knowest that these are one. But why seekest thou the knowledge of their equivalence?


My answer to why he didn't assign it (to anyone who cares) would be a guess. And it would go something along the lines of not demanding that every single student use the "averse" as part of the required assignments.

But it's there. And that experience and knowledge has its value. As I said, the experience was amazing, and I learned quite a bit from it. Personally, however, I wouldn't recommend it, and I do tend to want to warn the unwary away from it.

Yet it is there. It does work. And apparently others were either more prepared for it or less reactive to it.

Myself, I have absolutely no use or desire for "averse" pentagrams, especially daily! Except apparently at a time in the past I needed to know the New Aeon energies were worthy and powerful to overcome an intentional invocation of aversely ordered elemental energies.

Do it again? Ha! You try and make me!
User avatar
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Frater 639 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:24 pm

Tony DeLuce wrote:Thanks. I always thought of Liber V as being a perfect example of what not to do in ritual :-) And for a certain type of temperament this would release a great deal of energy by performing it...


I would say that it "invokes" the energy. What do you mean by release? If you mean removing deep-seated blocks, to be able to more readily invoke energy, I would definitely agree.

Also interesting that Crowley continued to use the Pentagram ritual throughout his life even after creating it..

Does anyone have any evidence of Crowley actually ever performing this ritual on a regular basis?


I continue to use it throughout my life because it works. I imagine he did the same - but there is more than just ceremonial magick in this form that can achieve the energized enthusiasm needed for results. Ceremonial magick is just one tool in the toolbox.

You can eat many things to sustain life, and you can certainly enjoy the meal, but the point isn't the meal - it's the energy that the meal provides.

There are other (arguably more direct) methods that Crowley employed that could achieve better results than a daily ceremonial invocation could provide...

<insert Jim's quote here - "Let your life be the ritual!" > :D
Frater 639
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:08 am

Re: "Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Frater 639 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:40 pm

Legis wrote: Myself, I have absolutely no use or desire for "averse" pentagrams, especially daily!


Comment to Liber V (excerpts) wrote: The Magician should devise for himself a definite technique for destroying "evil." The essence of such a practice will consist in training the mind and the body to confront things which case fear, pain, disgust,* shame and the like. He must learn to endure them, then to become indifferent to them, then to become indifferent to them, then to analyze them until they give pleasure and instruction, and finally to appreciate them for their own sake, as aspects of Truth. When this has been done, he should abandon them, if they are really harmful in relation to health and comfort...

[...]

This then in the virtue of the Magick of The Beast 666, and the canon of its proper usage; to destroy the tendency to discriminate between any two things in theory, and in practice to pierce the veils of every sanctuary, pressing forward to embrace every image; for there is none that is not very Isis. The Inmost is one with the Inmost; yet the form of the One is not the form of the other; intimacy exacts fitness. He therefore who liveth by air, let him not be bold to breathe water. But mastery cometh by measure: to him who with labour, courage, and caution giveth his life to understand all that doth encompass him, and to prevail against it, shall be increase. "The word of Sin is Restriction": seek therefore Righteousness, enquiring into Iniquity, and fortify thyself to overcome it.


I approached it with fear at first as well. But daily practice overcame the original fear and equilibrated Pachad with Geburah, which are sacred names of the Five. Maybe Liber V isn't a coincidental name...

Legis wrote:Do it again? Ha! You try and make me!


Do what thou wilt in all things, Brother. It's not for everybody. I really do understand...like I said, it wasn't without fear when I first yelled "Within me the Powers! About me flames my Father's Face, the Star of Force and Fire, and in the Column stands His six-rayed splendor!"
Frater 639
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:08 am

"Greater" ritual of Pentagram

Postby Hermitas » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:51 pm

"When this has been done, he should abandon them if they are really harmful in relation to health and comfort..."

Yes.

Though...

I am far more equilibrated than I was at the time. But I feel I've already learned what I needed to from it. For me, at the time, it was a very big deal.
User avatar
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

Next

Return to Magick

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests