Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

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Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby Faust » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:39 am

When working with the body of light is the success in transferring the conscience to the simulacrum usually marked by a:
sudden shift of conscience (suddenly you are there, fully in the body of light, effortlessly)
or
it happens more gradually (the intensity of the astral experience increases gradually with sustained effort until you find yourself there, but if you reduce the concentration the intensity reduces)?

I am getting the second experience, even doing some interesting journeying while at it but it does not match the descriptions I find in literature (well, no luck trying to find a Neophyte in Brazil). Should I aim at a higher level of concentration so I will get the first type of experience?
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:10 am

It could be either - especially in the learning stages.

But, even later, it isn't unusual for there to be a "background awareness" of being in both locations at once. For published examples, see The Vision & the Voice, where Crowley, in deep vision, is simultaneously aware of what is happening in his body and, in other places, is otherwise obviously "in both places" at the same time. (There are probably a lot more of these occasions, too - just not mentioned since the colocation becomes as familiar as having two arms.)
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby Faust » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:40 am

Is it expected that the mature Neophyte to have conquered this learning stage or is it something that will only mature in later grades?
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby ThelemicMage » Wed May 04, 2016 5:40 pm

I believe this skill is acquired fully before one graduates from Neophyte.

There's just too much to learn without being aware of the astral in any higher grade.
“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby gerry456 » Thu May 05, 2016 3:23 pm

Faust wrote:When working with the body of light is the success in transferring the conscience to the simulacrum usually marked by a:
sudden shift of conscience (suddenly you are there, fully in the body of light, effortlessly)
or
it happens more gradually (the intensity of the astral experience increases gradually with sustained effort until you find yourself there, but if you reduce the concentration the intensity reduces)?

I am getting the second experience, even doing some interesting journeying while at it but it does not match the descriptions I find in literature (well, no luck trying to find a Neophyte in Brazil). Should I aim at a higher level of concentration so I will get the first type of experience?


Do you ever do mental wandering (i.e. visualizing what another part of your town would look like now) and then transfer over like that?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby Faust » Fri May 06, 2016 12:35 pm

gerry456 wrote:Do you ever do mental wandering (i.e. visualizing what another part of your town would look like now) and then transfer over like that?

That’s just one of the thousand ways to use the body of light. Since I am not really interested in what is happening in the other side of the city, no.

gerry456 wrote: to get to Yetsirah shut down the senses, to get to Briah shut down the mind

I believe that you are quoting my words.
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby gerry456 » Fri May 06, 2016 1:58 pm

Faust wrote:That’s just one of the thousand ways to use the body of light. Since I am not really interested in what is happening in the other side of the city, no.

.


Where are you interested in going in the physical world?

Faust wrote:[
gerry456 wrote: to get to Yetsirah shut down the senses, to get to Briah shut down the mind

I believe that you are quoting my words.


I've deleted it.
Last edited by gerry456 on Fri May 06, 2016 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby ThelemicMage » Fri May 06, 2016 2:35 pm

Years ago, before I started doing proper ritual magic and learning practices, sometimes tripping, and sometimes jackslamming dope would throw me in the astral almost by accident, and I would wander through the neighborhood and different places around. This is actually an effective practice.
“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

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All Hail Discordia!!

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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby Faust » Fri May 06, 2016 3:26 pm

gerry456 wrote:
Where are you interested in going in the physical world?


I would better enjoy driving there. Astral travel is much more interesting when travelling the astral.


gerry456 wrote:

I've deleted it.

No problem to use it, especially if it is helpful to you. It would just be polite to mention the source.
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby ThelemicMage » Fri May 06, 2016 7:44 pm

Here, I'll quote some famous people to lighten the situation:



"Get behind me, Satan!"... 'There's a horrible storm brewing and I wouldn't want you to get hurt...'


"To be or not to be, that is the question"... 'or the answer, in almost any given situation.'


"Woke up this mo'nin' an got myself a bee-yah"... 'woke up this mo'nin' an got mself a bee'yah. yeah we goin' down the road house an gonna have a ree-yah.. a-goo-time.'
“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

Love is the Law,

Hail Eris!
All Hail Discordia!!

Love under Will
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby gerry456 » Sat May 07, 2016 1:51 am

Faust wrote:No problem to use it, especially if it is helpful to you. It would just be polite to mention the source.


No worries, I've been meaning to change it for a while.

Faust wrote:[ would better enjoy driving there. Astral travel is much more interesting when travelling the astral.

.


and.....................

Faust wrote:When working with the body of light is the success in transferring the conscience to the simulacrum usually marked by a:
sudden shift of conscience (suddenly you are there, fully in the body of light, effortlessly)
or
it happens more gradually (the intensity of the astral experience increases gradually with sustained effort until you find yourself there, but if you reduce the concentration the intensity reduces)?
?
[/quote]

Well the reason I brought up "mental wandering" is that when you do mental wandering you are literally projecting into and visiting the etheric plane which is the exact replica of the physical plane but the "next step up" although it penetrates the physical plane of course. That is, you are then etherically projecting and watching the etheric plane through your astral eyes.

You seem to be dismissing mental wandering as fanciful and useless when it might actually be the key to your success by acting as a launch pad to astral projection. That's what I try to do anyway.

To answer the initial question I think it's a sudden shift.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby Faust » Sat May 07, 2016 12:41 pm

gerry456 wrote:Well the reason I brought up "mental wandering" is that when you do mental wandering you are literally projecting into and visiting the etheric plane which is the exact replica of the physical plane but the "next step up" although it penetrates the physical plane of course. That is, you are then etherically projecting and watching the etheric plane through your astral eyes.


Straight from Ophiel book on astral travel. Not wrong but not exactly relevant to this specific practice (Ophiel has this tendency to digress, but I like his work in general).
Once you start to practice the astral drills there are some very useful information that you don’t find in books. Some of it I found out myself other I got from those more experienced.
For example, I found out that only daily practices taking more than 30 minutes where effective in increasing the results. It is not only about intense concentration but the very act of indwelling the imaginary body for a longer period, even if your concentration is not very intense.
Or that some intense middle pillar practice, with extra charge of the solar center, does wonders for the stability of the body of light once you are trying to get in it.


gerry456 wrote: You seem to be dismissing mental wandering as fanciful and useless when it might actually be the key to your success by acting as a launch pad to astral projection. That's what I try to do anyway.


Not fanciful or useless, just not "the key" or even "a key". That’s only one more kind of astral drill, like Ophiel idea of walking around the house or Jim suggestion of practicing your rituals in the body of light (this have some extra benefits).
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Re: Astral Travel – gradual or sudden shift?

Postby Faust » Sun May 08, 2016 4:43 am

ThelemicMage wrote:"Get behind me, Satan!"... 'There's a horrible storm brewing and I wouldn't want you to get hurt...'

:lol: :lol:
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