Black Magick

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Black Magick

Postby DavidH » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:34 am

I am a bit confused as to what can be done without falling into the catagory of black magick. Crowley stated that every act of will is Magick, correct? So if you get the girl by sending flowers, knowing what to say, writing poetry, this is the same thing as doing a ritual to get her. Now, he also says that every operation of magick that is not done for the great work of the K&C of the HGA (or something needed to get to it) is Black Magick, correct? So does that mean that any act of will that is not for the great work is Black magick? If I go after a job just because I want lots of money (more than I need for te great work), and use my skills and will to get it, is it black magick?

And also, if something is black magick by crowley's definition, what does it mean? Where does it lead? Does it bring about negative karma? Does it lead one to become a black brother?
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Re: Black Magick

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:21 pm

It's generally accepted (and I agree) that a magician has to practice! In other words, you have to develop the skills to be able to use the tools. So - after filtering for "convenient self-justifying excuses" ("Really, Momma Nu, I had to find something to practice on!" <g>), there may be any number of things that aren't immediately or directly pursuing the K&C that actually are on that path because you are developing the skills.

In other words: More guys have been motivated to learn astral travel by wanting to watch their sexy neighbor shower than have been motivated by wanting to explore Hod in each of the four Worlds. :P

You also have to be able to support yourself and sustain yourself to do the Great Work. This doesn't mean that "money spells" are automatically justified (nor does it mean they are bad). I've always used the guideline of making best effort with non-magical resources before trying magick for the same thing.

But (he said after reading the last), aren't all intentional actions magick? I think that's misleading. (1) It's definitely true in the abstract and as a general description of some faculties involved. (2) It was originally written for a particular order that calls someone a Magician without ever teaching them magick per se, but where that title is applied to a stage of "just living your life" - so it was dead-on in that particular context. (3) If we take it as our general definition, then the word "magick" loses all specific meaning and it's too good a word to throw away like that. So, personally, I elect to reserve the word "magick" to mean what is generally understood by "theurgy."

The most useful "line in the sand" for me on defining black magick is that it is at odds with True Will - with the expanded understanding that everyone's True Will necessarily contains everyone else being at liberty (and encouraged!) to do their True Will as well. (There's a somewhat drawnout "proof" of this, too long for me to write now, but the key points are that "doing True Will" inherently requires consideration of the context or circumstances - the nature of the Universe - and, per Thelemic doctrine, we understand the Universe as a fabric made up of the infinite individual threads of each being moving in its own natural path, i.e., moving in conformity with Will.)

So, the universe working best when all beings are in alignment with True Will, black magick can then be defined as "{*******} up the universe." :twisted:

Which means, of course, that we'll end up doing a lot of black magick even if we don't intend to. Learning magick is trial-and-error even with the best training - that is, you have to get on the bike and pedal (and surely fall over a time or two) before you'll ever learn to ride it. We screw up. Of course, we have the chance to fix our screw-ups. E.g., we hurt other people's feelings even when we don't want to - there are unintended consequences of intended actions. This is the interplay of Hadit and Nuit, of action and context, will and love.

DJHOHL wrote:And also, if something is black magick by crowley's definition, what does it mean? Where does it lead? Does it bring about negative karma? Does it lead one to become a black brother?

Yeah, karma. Not sure it's "negative" karma except in the sense that falling off a bicycle is a "bad event." It's also an event that's part of the stream of connected moments that eventuate in your riding a bike. Similarly, {*******} the "wrong" person teaches us (eventually, and sometimes after many repeat experiments! :roll: ) how to recognize the "right" person 8) - and so forth.
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Postby zeph » Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:15 pm

Interesting stuff.

PF Case -- just to toss in another perspective -- somewhere defined black magic to be any effort by one individual to affect the will of another individual. The example Case used, Advertising, is a good one.
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Postby DELETED » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:04 am

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Postby zeph » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:14 am

Thanks, a well-elaborated extension of my mention of Case's thought, and a good description of the inherent dangers.

The application of this definition to advertising remains obvious, more so after Marc's additional note. I wonder if anybody has any other notions of regular appearances of black magick in our society?
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Black Magick

Postby DavidH » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:25 pm

Perhaps "unconscious" is the key term? Advertising is not bad in itself, but perhaps subliminal advertising is more likely "black magick." I know of one "esoteric group" who considers themselves of the "left-hand path" and they practice subliminal control over individuals. They refer to this as "Lesser black magic" as opposed to the higher forms of ritual black magick.

Zeph asked for another example in society. I think the most dangerous one is of news media who can take a story, manipulate facts to push their views and to manipulate societies views on a certain topic. They also change the language to change people's views on things. I look at about 8-10 news sources each day from different places in the world, different political views, etc. A good experiment is to find one story and to compare how each of the news sources reports it. It is obvious how they manipulate it to get their message across. Try it!
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Postby DELETED » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:29 pm

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Postby Frater56 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:56 am

I realise that I am a newbie, and generally don't know my head from a hole in the ground, so be well advised and take what I have to say with a chunk of rock salt. For what it's worth, here is my opinion (and please correct me if I am wrong):

In at least some mystery religions, and definitely in Christianity and some of the Gnostic sects, the first initiation is given BEFORE the postulant actually deserves it. In Christianity, for example, the 'sinner' is forgiven of all past sins in good faith that they will strive not to sin again. This is impossable, and absurd, since they lack the discipline at such an early stage to abstain from their previous habbits, and now since they have a whole list of what NOT to do, they are tempted twice as bad as before. (Doesn't Liber Al say something to the effect that the word of sin is restriction?)

I see no reason why Thelema would be any different. Of coarse you are going to practice black magic during the initial stages and early degrees, and if my intuition is correct, I would say probably right on up through the higher degrees. In fact, I am tempted to walk out on a limb and say that the temptation to knowingly perform black magic at higher degrees is probably exponentialy greater(as well as the potential damage), than say a mere neophyte or zelator that has fewer doors of opportunity open to her/him.
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Postby DavidH » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:37 pm

Frater56 wrote:In Christianity, for example, the 'sinner' is forgiven of all past sins in good faith that they will strive not to sin again. This is impossable, and absurd, since they lack the discipline at such an early stage to abstain from their previous habbits, and now since they have a whole list of what NOT to do, they are tempted twice as bad as before.


In fact, I am tempted to walk out on a limb and say that the temptation to knowingly perform black magic at higher degrees is probably exponentialy greater(as well as the potential damage), than say a mere neophyte or zelator that has fewer doors of opportunity open to her/him.


93!

When you say that a Christian at "an early stage" lacks the discipline to abstain from previous habbits, I would have to say that it does not matter what stage someone is in! No one can do it! Once, in a past life ;), I asked a priest why someone should give confession and promise not to sin if they knew that they would. His answer was a good one to me at the time. It was " You wash your clothes often, right?" "Yes." "Well, why do you do that when you know they will get dirty again?"

As for the higher degree having more of a temptation to perform black magick, I would say this is not the case. Of course I am not speaking from experience, so take what you will. But it seems that the closer one gets to his HGA in Tiphareth, the less he would want to perform black magick, and once with the HGA I don't think it would even be possible to do black magick because that would imply doing something against the great work and true will and would thus show that a connection with the HGA is not there. At least that is my idea. Jim, does this make sense or am I totally off base?
In LVX,
David

"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains."
Liber L - II, 9
93 93/93
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Postby Draco Magnus » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:18 pm

93

Umm, I don't see any black magick, unless it's being used against me. Oops, am I in trouble?

:twisted:

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Postby Frater56 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 pm

No, we WANT you to cover it up. :wink: :P
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Postby DavidH » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:07 am

I just read in an internet article that Crowley said in his 1920's diary: "I may be a black magician but I'm bloody great one." Does anyone know if this is true and if so, what was the context?
In LVX,
David

"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains."
Liber L - II, 9
93 93/93
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:39 am

I recall some line similar to that but it's been 20 years since I read those particular diaries. They're widely available in book form.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
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