Aleister Crowley and the Ouija Board book / Red Flame

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Aleister Crowley and the Ouija Board book / Red Flame

Postby redd fezz » Sat May 20, 2006 6:48 am

Based on the reviews, I just had to snag this when I saw it in the store. I'm on page 13 and have already learned a lot of interesting things.

It's funny; exactly as the author says, I think of the Ouija board as a silly toy... and yet, I think of it as so potentially dangerous that I wouldn't play with one if you paid me. My mom's had weird experiences with it and so have I (every piece of paper in my friend's room began rubbing together making a chorus of rattle/hissing sounds).

But, after reading this book, maybe I will think differently. Crowley, Achad and Paul Foster Case all took the Ouija seriously and used it regularly, so that's what prompted my interest in the book. But, what I didn't realize is that John Dee basically used a Ouija and it's possible that oracles of the past were basically just different versions of the Ouija.

The book is fascinating. It's published by Feral House, but I read somewhere that the author is associated with Red Flame, which is probably why this page: http://www.redflame93.com/ACandOB.html
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Postby bethata418 » Sat May 20, 2006 1:26 pm

93

when the book came out i heard a interview with the author jerry cornelius on thelema coast to coast (TCTC), it sounds like an interesting book, i am wanting to buy it here soon.

so would you recommend it?

i never knew crowley used the board so often!

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Postby redd fezz » Sat May 20, 2006 1:40 pm

bethata418 wrote:so would you recommend it?


Yes I would! But, then again, I don't know a lot of stuff other people seem to know. I'm on pg 47 just starting Chapter 4 now. It is not just about the Ouija board. There are all sorts of little details about elementals, demons, angels, qlippoth and Enochian magic that have actually been quite helpful in easily filling in gaps of my knowledge.

This is the kind of book that turns a lot of people on to magic, I think, the way few books do. It's simple enough to be understood, if only abstractly, by anyone and yet totally specific and sophisticated enough for the old hand occultist.

Essentially, this book is sort of an "all you need to know about the Ouija" primer. He briefly gives the history of oracles and the Ouija in particular as well as a detailed explanation of what's going on during use , including possible dangers and reasonable approaches to using the Ouija as a very practical ceremonial magic tool. Like Enochian magic, it just works, whether or not you expect it to. What this book promises to show is a Thelemic approach to Ouija use. As he says in the intro, the major difference between Spiritualists and Magicians can be summed up by one word: will! So, rather than opening the portal to whatever old spirits might be attracted to the triangular planchette, the point of the book is to explain how to maintain control over the Ouija, just as you would with a magic circle and a triangle. Lots of great stuff in this little book!
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Postby jmiller » Sun May 21, 2006 1:11 pm

bethata418 wrote:so would you recommend it?


I don't know. I found it very interesting, but it seemed written for an odd audience. On the one hand, he talks about stuff at a really basic level, explaining, for example, how to banish. But then, as if assuming a more advanced audience, doesn't really explain invocation.

If you get this book, get it for the history of the board and Crowley's use of it. But I don't know if I want to recommend it for the practical use of it.

My summary of how to use the board, according to Cornelius:
1. Banish
2. Envoke whoever you want to talk to
3. Use the board as the critter's means of communication
4. Test the critter to make sure you got the right one
5. Ask your questions
6. Banish

But Cornelius does give some advice on how to go about testing the critters and so forth. However, I don't think he really gives anything that applies uniquely to the board. It seems like the same thing you'd do for Geotic evocations using crystals, mirrors, smoke, or whatever as the medium.

On the other hand, if you don't already have experience with evocation, then this book may give you a general introduction to some of the general issues involved with it.
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Postby redd fezz » Sun May 21, 2006 2:21 pm

I enjoyed it for the little odds and ends of information, like that the Sun is a portal from which streams all manner of elementals, angels, demons and the fibers of life. I don't know if I exactly realized that before.
I recently found Jung's Seven Sermons To The Dead which talks more about Abraxas-Sun as discussed in this book here:
http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/sermon0.htm

Really interesting stuff. I am now inclined to believe Jung was a gnostic first and a psychologist almost as a cover-up.
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Postby Malaclypse » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:37 pm

In this book Cornelius mentions that it is important to turn off all electricity and rathermost even pull out the cords in the room where the ritual is to be performed. He wrote that he would come back to why, but I don't recall ever reading why, so... why?

This is related to my speculation that the elements can be converted to the four physical forces in which I would translate electrical force to fire. Does the reason have any relation?
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Postby augur » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:17 am

I have not read the book, nor am I particularly interested. I would suggest that you doubly research anything that is not founded in Historical precedence. The author has an amazing library for research, and is an excellent student of history. I would just be a little wary of any interpretation there of.

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Postby Malaclypse » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:35 pm

Thanks for the information. He at any rate seems like a generally interesting occult writer and good at putting the story of explanation together, I think from this book.
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Postby Elkeid » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:40 am

I read this one, and although most occultists probably won't learn anything particularly new to them or of major importance, I think it's a good idea to promote more proper uses for this tool. There's been incidents of unwanted invocation, let alone evocation. When I was a silly kid I played with it all the time and unharnessed energy blew the tube on the television.


Malaclypse, youre quite right about electricity and fire; are you aware of the colour/element associations found in certain indigenous cultures that relate to the four directions and the four groupings of people? It relates to what you just asked, because for the more southern tribes in north america, they tend to associate the west, which is basically Caucasian people with the element Fire; this is why the western world has been so dominant; electricity is a powerful manifestation but most dangerous and volatile; our society does tend to burn others and ourselves; its used the wrong way a lot. The others are red-earth-north,
yellow-air-east,
black-water-south
notice how these people are best in their element, and how their traditions and culture and religions focus on it...its a cool topic to look at.
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Postby Malaclypse » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:33 am

Ah, thanks for the explanation, Elkeid! No, I wasn't aware of that categorization specifically. Do they correlate to "the peoples" in Liber AL by any chance, or is that just meant as "any random culture"?
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Postby MQL » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:06 pm

"Do they correlate to "the peoples" in Liber AL by any chance, or is that just meant as "any random culture"?

Just wanted to jump in here and give an opinion. Liber Al vel Legis is not (as I said, this is just my opinion) a book that can be said to mean 'something' or 'anything' in particular. Many things that occured (and continue to occur) on the physical plane seem (to some) to be THE manifestation of a certain verse or chapter, but this is not the 'whole story', so to speak. The verses of the book are far deeper than their type. I have discussed this (in my opinion) most Holy and important book with many Thelemites, as well as with a number of non-Thelemites. I found that time and time again, everyone I talked to (or at least it seemed) had read a different book! :) This povides an endless supply of insight because other people have a fresh view, something you would not naturally have seen yourself, which is very exciting! :D Also! I have read The Book of the Law hundreds of times, and I never read the same book twice! :D Just as (I'm sure) the book has changed you, so will the book change with you as you develop. There are things written in that book that only you can read. Things only you, and no one but you were ever meant to read. There is no greater authority on this matter than your Heart of hearts, your True Self.
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Postby Elkeid » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:56 pm

93

I agree with that MQL; Liber Al vel Legis can be explored and partially understood on so many different levels; it's both personal and universal and changes just as much as we do personally and collectively.
So Malaclypse, only you can answer that question to your satisfaction throughout your life; I tend to see the different groupings of the past as star-systems, clusters even. Maybe even constellations of Nuit. They change and merge and drift away, but it would be a shame to dismiss insights from the ancient past.

Because we know more about each other today, we are able to learn from each grouping's manifestation of an element. For instance, from the East-air; Yoga has become a way to learn how to breathe properly. It's just a way to understand the world we live in, and how it's all interconnected and also helps to synthesize such teachings on the micro and macro.

If it were too subjective I wouldn't mention it, but the elements act as they do; get into alchemy though, and that would be a little more difficult to articulate(at least for me).
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Postby Malaclypse » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:20 pm

Thank you both for the answers! This has been mentioned before on heruraha, but I guess I didn't take it to heart entirely. One of the reasons is that thing mentioned about the levels of understanding it. I take that as a journey from objective to subjective, or perhaps the other way around, not sure yet. It's therefore good to juggle the ideas with others who've worked with it. It is indeed very cool that it is so ever changing, methinks. :)
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Postby redd fezz » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:05 pm

Elkeid wrote:I read this one, and although most occultists probably won't learn anything particularly new to them or of major importance, I think it's a good idea to promote more proper uses for this tool. There's been incidents of unwanted invocation, let alone evocation. When I was a silly kid I played with it all the time and unharnessed energy blew the tube on the television.


Malaclypse, youre quite right about electricity and fire; are you aware of the colour/element associations found in certain indigenous cultures that relate to the four directions and the four groupings of people? It relates to what you just asked, because for the more southern tribes in north america, they tend to associate the west, which is basically Caucasian people with the element Fire; this is why the western world has been so dominant; electricity is a powerful manifestation but most dangerous and volatile; our society does tend to burn others and ourselves; its used the wrong way a lot. The others are red-earth-north,
yellow-air-east,
black-water-south
notice how these people are best in their element, and how their traditions and culture and religions focus on it...its a cool topic to look at.


I'm curious about what this exactly means, since it was put so matter-of-factly, I have interpreted it as if it was intended as a "given" universal thing. These colors, elements and directions aren't universal as far as I can tell and so I'm wondering where this idea came from exactly. In a Tibetan mandala, blue is the center, white is east (pacifying), green is north (fierce/elimination), red is west (conquering) and yellow is south (enriching).

So, while the west is still the same, all the rest are different. And not just colors, but their elements. In the east is water to balance the fire of the west. In the north is air and in the south is earth. So, how does this effect what you've stated above: "notice how these people are best in their element, and how their traditions and culture and religions focus on it...its a cool topic to look at." ?

These are questions, not meant as an attack by any means. Just clarifying since intentions are not always obvious online. Thanks.
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Postby Elkeid » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:53 pm

93 Red Fezz,

No need to walk on eggshells, I don't feel attacked when questioned. It's good for me to know when I'm not expressing myself well.

I’m also not the type of person who claims to express absolutes; I don’t believe I really have any absolutes especially when it comes to human structures like colour symbolism’ our eyes can’t even register a lot of the colour spectrum. At the same time though,
I do feel that there is a certain truism to how different cultures are aware of colour in representing various wavelengths in their own environment; and their most aware spiritual systems are in-tune with some aspects of universal energy . Primal genetic make-up of a particular group, and their interaction with different cultures would all influence how the colours are categorized; so I didn’t mean to say they are, or should be all the same.
They differ because they are talking about different things –I realize this-the traditional Tibetan mandala is divided to represent the 5 Buddhas. By the colour correspondences I mentioned this would all apply to some of the teachings of air. The colour correspondences I mentioned initially are some of the teachings of earth because I said they are indigenous and they are the earth-orientated people- that’s why it’s talking about all the different people and how they implement what they have learned on earth and how they use it on earth- Course it doesn’t all stop anywhere at some universal ‘fact’; circles don’t really have divisions, but they have a center. The directions are not even four only, there’s “up”, “down”, and then the inner-the circle’s center. The only evidence you really need for any of this is your own observations; but to tell you where this particular one came from; it’s part of a prophecy which comes from Nunavut in the Arctic and from the Hopi and from South America -which isn’t to say all their cultural colours match up. The colours aren’t even the important part here but that’s why I consider it appropriate: it all depends how closely we look into it as it’s hidden when we’re distracted by ‘facts’. Don’t take my word for it, but I see African culture as very rhythmic like water and very musical for example, plus the Nile is pertinent to its survival. Thelema is African in its deities; yet we acknowledge yoga and asanas, etc. Fire gets along with air very well; Fire and water though…history is some evidence of that. I find this all interesting and it works for me; just thought I’d share some of it.

Or to be a little more on-topic, I asked my ouija board if any of this was true but it just told me to Eff off. :wink:
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Postby redd fezz » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:30 am

Ah, now I getcha! Yes, that is very cool. Thanks for taking the time to explain that. BTW, I was reading "Autobiography of a Yogi" last night and came across a bit where the author mentions the universe being created like a spider web and immediately it reminded me of the Spider Woman of the Native Americans. There's definitely a lot of cultural overlaps around the world-- and you're right: how YOU see them is what's most important. I've been comparing several religious ideas now for a while and thinking how funny it is that these people disagree with each other when it seems to me they are all saying the same thing in different words.
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