Geomancy

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Geomancy

Postby Archaeus » Wed May 30, 2012 6:09 am

93

Well, it's on the syllabus, and I've tried to avoid this seemingly impenetrable method of divination for years, so I guess its time to bite the bullet, and for the next few months I will be struggling to get my head around the art of Geomancy.

I have absolutely no experience with Geomancy, and to be honest, from perusing Liber Gaias, it looks like more trouble than it's worth, but I'll give it a go anyway.

From the outset it seems very mechanical, so that if you wanted to you could just created any figure you liked. I tried randomly dashing sixteen lines and just found that I tended to do the same number of dots for each line, so it feels very artificial.

Anyone on the forum had much experience with this?
If so, any advise or tips would be useful.

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Re: Geomancy

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed May 30, 2012 7:20 am

Yi Ching is "totally mechanical" also - in exactly the same sense as geomancy. Neither works unless you "make contact."

Geomancy is primarily more a system of evocatory magick. The whole secret is in connecting initially to the Earth spirits (gnomes) and engaging them in the task of manipulating things to communicate with you.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Archaeus » Wed May 30, 2012 7:34 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:Yi Ching is "totally mechanical" also - in exactly the same sense as geomancy. Neither works unless you "make contact."

Geomancy is primarily more a system of evocatory magick. The whole secret is in connecting initially to the Earth spirits (gnomes) and engaging them in the task of manipulating things to communicate with you.

I suppose the Yi Ching is mechanical in a sense, if your using the sticks method, its been a long time since I've used it though I still have a copy around somewhere, although it seems to me easier to draw particular numbers of dots on paper than to divide the Yi Ching's sticks in a deliberate manner.
However, since I've only just begun looking into this I'll avoid forming an opinion for now.

I imagine then that the first thing to get right is the initial evocation, would testing for this be similar to the tarot, where you get a feeling of "rightness" about it? I would imagine that only practice would bring about the right frame of mind?
I'm also wondering whether this might be a useful preliminary to other forms of evocation/invocation, maybe planetary or even Enochian work?

But lets not jump the gun here...

I have to admit, Crowley's description of the method seems vague at best, with only the bare bones of the system written down, he hints that some is omitted, and that this would be given to initiates, what's that all about?
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed May 30, 2012 8:11 am

Archaeus wrote:I suppose the Yi Ching is mechanical in a sense, if your using the sticks method, its been a long time since I've used it though I still have a copy around somewhere, although it seems to me easier to draw particular numbers of dots on paper than to divide the Yi Ching's sticks in a deliberate manner.

I've always preferred the coins, and my six coins now have about 40 years of "vibe" on them.

I'm also wondering whether this might be a useful preliminary to other forms of evocation/invocation, maybe planetary or even Enochian work?

There are a couple of reasons that this (and divination in general) is on the 1=10 A.'.A.'. curriculum. Most broadly, of course, is that this is advance work on the 3=8 examination on divination for the path of Qoph (placed here because Qoph is also one of the Paths opening from Malkuth).

But - more to the point here - almost every last thing in the 1=10 curriculum is there to support the particular breakthroughs of competent functioning on the astral and highly developed ceremonial magick. Geomancy is included for the same reason.

I have to admit, Crowley's description of the method seems vague at best, with only the bare bones of the system written down, he hints that some is omitted, and that this would be given to initiates, what's that all about?

Get Regardie's book - it''s the best on the subject.

Also, don't forget (if you're actually using Liber Gaius) that Crowley intentionally disabled the book - anyone using it is magically blocked from having any success. You should ask your Zelator how to disable this intentional limitation. (It's easy; but I'm not going to be the one to spill the beans on how to do it since it was quite intentional on his part. But you won't encounter the issue if you use Regardie's book.)
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Archaeus » Wed May 30, 2012 9:29 am

I've had a look at Regardie's book, which does indeed shed some light on the subject, and to me it seems as though the coin method as per the Yi Ching would suit it quite well.

It so happens that on my shelf I have three Chinese coins for the use of that oracle, although I don't really want to use these in Geomancy as it seems to me that intelligences governing the Yi-Ching is not in the same league as the geomantic intelligences, but are quite a bit more refined than that, more Mercurial, being a book.

Still, it's something to think about.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby jcrow » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:28 am

John Michael Greer wrote a very detailed and easy to understand book on this subject. I find the entire system less open to interpretation, Sorta like divinatory binary code. If you do not like the pen and paper method you can use tons of other things, marbles, rocks, runes, spare change etc. The invocation is the most important part. the easiest way to begin is to just use the shield chart. once you get a hang of the characters and there relationships you can move on and add the astrological aspect of this technique. Even though there are only 16 figures it can be a little intimating, like tarot work it in stages.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Archaeus » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:38 am

jcrow wrote:John Michael Greer wrote a very detailed and easy to understand book on this subject. I find the entire system less open to interpretation, Sorta like divinatory binary code. If you do not like the pen and paper method you can use tons of other things, marbles, rocks, runes, spare change etc. The invocation is the most important part. the easiest way to begin is to just use the shield chart. once you get a hang of the characters and there relationships you can move on and add the astrological aspect of this technique. Even though there are only 16 figures it can be a little intimating, like tarot work it in stages.


I'll be experimenting with various methods once I've memorized the basics of the technique, the coin method looks superficially like the I Ching method so I'll probably start with that, I've been a tarot guy for about the last 20 years since the tarot/qaballah was the first system I learned, so that I don't have to go rooting through texts to find things that I have wired firmly into my brain, I'm looking forward to getting my teeth into a new system, and I already have Regardies book ordered from Amazon and should have it in a few days.

It should be interesting to see if I can get it to work.

One thing that does interest me though, is the mechanism by which these things work, because all my reasoning and logic say's that they shouldn't, and yet I have always found the Tarot to be useful despite that.

I probably need to re-think my ideas about how the universe is put together :roll: Not an easy task for a hard-headed rationalist like me.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Freya » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:17 pm

the first time I heard of geomancy was referred to a type of dowsing for earth energies...what I gather here that the geomancy you are talkning about is different...can someone explain to me what it is? Is it divination as well?
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Re: Geomancy

Postby ThelemicMage » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:22 pm

They geomancy they are speaking of is in regards to a certain Liber of Crowley's that has to do with the magician making dots almost at random, by his/her subconscious Will, that end up meaning something prophetic.

That's what I got out of a quick read of the liber months and months ago.
“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

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Re: Geomancy

Postby Archaeus » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:18 am

Isreal Regardie's handbook of Geomancy is better than Liber Gaius fwiw, it contains all the information you need really, and doesn't have AC's slightly off putting pompous style.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby ThelemicMage » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:15 am

Why people always mistake Crowley's manly influential writing for "pompous", I will never know.

If one takes his writing as pompous, Christ, one should concentrate on releasing more testosterone in their body during meditation. We are in the Aeon of Horus, a very male ever-growing child who states things bluntly, obviously, to-the-quick, as Crowley does.

.."but there are some not so receptive to the Work."
“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

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Re: Geomancy

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:29 am

To give a broader answer to the original question: Geomancy is a method of divination based on communication with Earth elementals (gnomes). The communion is effected classically by surrendering just enough physical control after an appropriate summoning and binding of the gnomes that they will guide your hand to make unconscious marks across moistened sand or soil. These dashes are composed into figures (not entirely different from the way that Yi Ching hexagrams are formed), and composed into a horoscope wheel - so that astrological symbolism (primarily house symbolism) can be used as the framework of the divination.

A modern innovation - I think it can be credited to Regardie - is that using a felt-tipped pen on paper makes the dashes as effectively as preparing a sandbox.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Archaeus » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:02 am

ThelemicMage wrote:Why people always mistake Crowley's manly influential writing for "pompous", I will never know.

If one takes his writing as pompous, Christ, one should concentrate on releasing more testosterone in their body during meditation. We are in the Aeon of Horus, a very male ever-growing child who states things bluntly, obviously, to-the-quick, as Crowley does.

.."but there are some not so receptive to the Work."


Sorry, I forgot I'm not allowed to criticize the great poo-bah :lol:
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:10 am

Criticism allowed. Others have different opinions. I absolutely adore his prose style, it is a very high end of the early 20th Century English style IMHO.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Archaeus » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:18 am

I love it in the Holy books for sure, it serves a great purpose in speaking to the subconscious, and I'd go crazy trying to memorize tracts of boring text if the Class A work was all in a scientific style.

I guess that having that kind of style in instructional works just isn't to my taste, it just seems a bit unnecessary.

Anyway, way off topic, my apologies.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby ThelemicMage » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:41 am

And Crowley adored criticism, you might say. It was proof to him that people were actually interested in his important work, even though their consciousness wasn't entirely into it.

Plus, he found a subconscious/conscious "divine" game with his little puppets in the garden by receiving such criticism and countering it with newer prose.

Never question the great Poo-Bah!

The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken!

(Do not pay attention to the little man behind the curtain. He is merely an instrument of the divine!) -Aiwaz
“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

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Re: Geomancy

Postby Iamus » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:22 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote: The communion is effected classically by surrendering just enough physical control after an appropriate summoning and binding of the gnomes
Is there any kind of standard or tradtional method or instruction for doing this? Does Regardie cover it in his book?
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:36 pm

Iamus wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote: The communion is effected classically by surrendering just enough physical control after an appropriate summoning and binding of the gnomes
Is there any kind of standard or tradtional method or instruction for doing this? Does Regardie cover it in his book?

Yes, he does.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby ThelemicMage » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:56 pm

An easy way to look at it is this:
(and if you are in everyday awareness of such creatures, it will make it so much easier.)

Identify as much as you consciously can about yourself with that of the gnomes. From the way your ears look at different angles, to the way you speak and walk. From the way you feel the breath of the forest to the way you breathe.

Everyone connects to their gnome in another dimension, very close to here actually, but their "world" seems so much more intimate and "huger" than ours is, even though they are "smaller" creatures.

When you can feel these energies creeping up through your meditation upon these aforementioned ideas, you can begin to walk that fine line of feeling out divination, even with (simple?) geomancy.
“The mushroom said to me once, ‘Nature loves courage. Nature loves courage,’ and I said, ‘What’s the payoff on that?’ And it said, ‘It shows you it loves courage because it removes obstacles.’ You make a commitment, and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream, and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up.” -Terrence McKenna

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Hail Eris!
All Hail Discordia!!

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Re: Geomancy

Postby Freya » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:54 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:To give a broader answer to the original question: Geomancy is a method of divination based on communication with Earth elementals (gnomes). The communion is effected classically by surrendering just enough physical control after an appropriate summoning and binding of the gnomes that they will guide your hand to make unconscious marks across moistened sand or soil. These dashes are composed into figures (not entirely different from the way that Yi Ching hexagrams are formed), and composed into a horoscope wheel - so that astrological symbolism (primarily house symbolism) can be used as the framework of the divination.

A modern innovation - I think it can be credited to Regardie - is that using a felt-tipped pen on paper makes the dashes as effectively as preparing a sandbox.

Thank you for explaining this Jim...what house system do you use for geomancy? Is it just symbolic (like Porphyry?)
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:57 am

Just symbolical. The divination tells you what house each figure is in. You don't use real astrology at all - never a matter of actually calculating a horoscope or a single planet position.
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Freya » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:39 am

thank you Jim, that clarifies. I know I may be asking a heresy here, but if one does not have much earth element in the natal chart (I only have moon in virgo), would they have problems working with the gnomes, Ghob and therefore geomancy? What I mean is, do the balance of the elements in the natal chart (sidereal, that is) affect the ability of the operator to work with one element if they are deficient in it?
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:46 am

Freya wrote:thank you Jim, that clarifies. I know I may be asking a heresy here, but if one does not have much earth element in the natal chart (I only have moon in virgo), would they have problems working with the gnomes, Ghob and therefore geomancy? What I mean is, do the balance of the elements in the natal chart (sidereal, that is) affect the ability of the operator to work with one element if they are deficient in it?

I don't think the so-called elemental attributions (Medieval concatenations to triplicities, based on a fictitious zodiac) have any value at all. If I did, though, then an "Earth" luminary is surely enough! In any case, (1) I don't think it matters and (2) if it did, I'd look for things like strength of Saturn.

I always found geomancy boring and superficial - no depth or dignity to it. I learned it dutifully when it was in my curriculum, and employed it laboriously and sullenly - very earthen of me :twisted:
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Freya » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:10 pm

My Saturn is in Libra, so it should be ok... But what you say about the triplicities not really making any difference is music to my ears. It is not the first time I hear of element deficiencies based on the natal chart (from tropical astrologers).... so thank you for that.
What divination technique, apart from Western Sidereal astrology, would you recommend, once we are past learning geomancy?
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Re: Geomancy

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:29 pm

Freya wrote:What divination technique, apart from Western Sidereal astrology, would you recommend, once we are past learning geomancy?

I don't consider astrology divination, because it's primarily analytical/scientific, not relying on subconscious or superconscious links per se.

But to answer your question: I'm a huge fan of Yi Ching and, of course, Tarot.
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