Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

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Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby Zalthos » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:46 pm

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

It occurred to me today that Horus may have been interpreted as the resurrected Osiris at some point in Egypt by one tradition or another. I believe I have found some confirmation of this here:

Wikipedia - Osiris Myth wrote:Although Osiris himself lives on only in the Duat, he and the kingship he stands for will, in a sense, be reborn in his son. The cohesive account by Plutarch, which deals mainly with this portion of the myth, differs in many respects from the known Egyptian sources.

I feel certain that at least some form of "death" or "sacrifice" occurs during initiation in Tiphareth: you get a heavy dose of this in the Wake World. However, Liber HHH lends a great deal to this kind of experience long before Tiphareth. This is leading me to think that Tiphareth is the realm of Resurrected Gods exclusively (i.e. irrespective of former incarnations). I hope I am being clear here. Tiphareth in this sense would be Horus, the Risen Christ, etc.

I speculate that in an A.'. A.'. sense, this would mean conferment of 5=6 takes place after K&C, which seems very obvious as I type this. I guess I am just having a hard time reconciling Old Aeon myths with mortifying motifs of sacrifice to what few accounts I have come across of what K&C is like, and what I've always dreamed and imagined it to be: "peace unutterable, rest, ecstasy"... But, even then, there's still all that vicious trauma from the Wake World to consider. Maybe this is a part of the task of a Dominus Liminus?
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Re: Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:16 pm

The difference between the old aeon and new aeon view of "resurrection" is roughly the differnce between (1) someone actually died, like a setting sun, then was reborn, like a rising sun, and (2) someone is in a state of continually borning.

Zalthos wrote:I feel certain that at least some form of "death" or "sacrifice" occurs during initiation in Tiphareth: you get a heavy dose of this in the Wake World. However, Liber HHH lends a great deal to this kind of experience long before Tiphareth. This is leading me to think that Tiphareth is the realm of Resurrected Gods exclusively (i.e. irrespective of former incarnations). I hope I am being clear here. Tiphareth in this sense would be Horus, the Risen Christ, etc.

The Golden Dawn's formula for their 5=6 ritual is, in A.'.A.'., the formula of the 2=9 initiation ceremony.

I speculate that in an A.'. A.'. sense, this would mean conferment of 5=6 takes place after K&C, which seems very obvious as I type this.

That's true of 5=6 Within, of course. But the 5=6 grade (5=6 Without) is conferred on completion of the Dominus Liminis grade, and has the singular task of attaining to the K&C of the HGA.

I guess I am just having a hard time reconciling Old Aeon myths with mortifying motifs of sacrifice to what few accounts I have come across of what K&C is like, and what I've always dreamed and imagined it to be: "peace unutterable, rest, ecstasy"... But, even then, there's still all that vicious trauma from the Wake World to consider. Maybe this is a part of the task of a Dominus Liminus?

It's not about sacrifice. (At least, not as usually understood. There are, of course, things that are left behind.)

We initially had this issue with Temple of Thelema. I couldn't distinguish the ritual (as inherited from our predecessors) from the Osiris formula. We briefly contemplated that there wouldn't be a ritual per se, just an obligation. Then, around 1992, it all snapped into place: Soror Meral made a passing remark one day that allowed the entire formula to be revisioned in a New Aeon.

I can't disclose the result - itt's the private Second Order initiation of the Order - but the book I'm currently workinh on has a page or so in Chapter 31 that contrasts the IAO formula of the Old Aeon from the IAO formula (at the heart of the Tiphereth initiation) of the New Aeon.
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Re: Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby Deus Ex Machina » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:30 am

I've wondered if there is a connection between what is meant by resurrected gods and the concept of ego death from eastern mysticism - the ego being the "sacrifice" and the new ego-less state the revivified divinity. Descriptions of Tiphareth and K&C use similar language to describe their states. Freed from the attachments of what is considered the illusory world, "peace unutterable, rest", etc. are fitting.
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Re: Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:51 am

Yes.

Or, to be more precise: There is a correspondence between slain gods and ego-death.
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Re: Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby Deus Ex Machina » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:31 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:Yes.

Or, to be more precise: There is a correspondence between slain gods and ego-death.

Aha. So, would it be correct to say that crossing the Veil of Paroketh is ego-death and Tiphareth is more precisely the resurrected god? So in terms of initiatory grades it would conform to Dominus Liminis or perhaps the intention of the Portal of G.D (though it being equivalent to A.'.A.'. 1=10 sort of muddies the fact).
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Re: Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:42 am

Deus Ex Machina wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:Or, to be more precise: There is a correspondence between slain gods and ego-death.

Aha. So, would it be correct to say that crossing the Veil of Paroketh is ego-death and Tiphareth is more precisely the resurrected god? So in terms of initiatory grades it would conform to Dominus Liminis or perhaps the intention of the Portal of G.D (though it being equivalent to A.'.A.'. 1=10 sort of muddies the fact).

I wouldn't attribute these quite the way you did, but I agree there is (what appears to be) a two-stage process.

Some points of disagreement:

"Slain god" isn't necessary to express Tiphereth. Yes, slain gods (and heroes, e.g., Adonis) tend to be attributed to Tiphereth, but not all Tiphereth gods are of the "slain" variety. (That's just what caught traction in the last aeon.) It's muddied a big because most of the rest are solar gods, and one can say, "Hey, the Sun goes through diurnal and annual death-and-resurrection cycles"; except that this is specifically an Old Aeon way of looking at it: a viable symbol when we want to use it, but an expression of outdated astronomy.

Another point is that "death and resurrection" is not the only interpretation for things that might first appear to be so. Consider the symbol of male reproduction. The father "dies" during orgasm, and is later "reborn" in the child, right? (At least, that works well in the Osiris story.) Except... he doesn't die, except briefly; and the child is really a continuity of his DNA, a variant of the same immortality of the first amoeba that continues to live a gazillions of current amoebas. But since the father's DNA is combined, it becomes more a form of "constantly reinventing oneself" - the child is a continuity of the original life-form but "reinvented," newly born. There is no death and resurrection: There is recurring birth.

If one were to go down the "death and resurrection" line, I wouldn't place it at Paroketh (though that veil IS defined, within the G.D. ceremonies, as referring to the physical body). The "catastrophe" I would attribute to the Path of Peh (easy to confuse, especially in the straight approach from Yesod to Tiphereth). Or OTOH, within Tiphereth itself, the eventual K&C of the HGA "slays" the old person (at the same time as it affirms and sanctifies the old person) in the copulatory combination: Being the grail that is pierced by the lance or spear having at least a couple of analogies that spins off of it.
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Re: Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby Zalthos » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:24 am

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Thank you both for your replies.

Jim Eshelman wrote:The Golden Dawn's formula for their 5=6 ritual is, in A.'.A.'., the formula of the 2=9 initiation ceremony.

I like the word "formula" in the context you're using here. I feel like that term's in perfect harmony with the alchemical and mathematical accretions of the Qabalah I often come across. I will keep that way of thinking in mind, especially as I revisit the material on Names/Magical Formulas in Liber ABA.

Also, with this information, I can see how the original G. D. is often considered "Old Aeon," seeing as there are no official rituals past 5=6 except through its successive orders. Does Temple of Thelema resolve this by opening to Briah in its 8°?

Jim Eshelman wrote:
I speculate that in an A.'. A.'. sense, this would mean conferment of 5=6 takes place after K&C, which seems very obvious as I type this.

That's true of 5=6 Within, of course. But the 5=6 grade (5=6 Without) is conferred on completion of the Dominus Liminis grade, and has the singular task of attaining to the K&C of the HGA.

This Within/Without aspect is something I haven't studied much yet. Am right in seeing 5=6 Without being contingent with Dominus Liminis and the Veil of Paroketh; 5=6 Within being contingent with the Sephirotic Grade of 5=6 in Tiphareth, the Adeptus Minor?

I tend to look at Dominus Liminis and the Babe of the Abyss as very transitional and short-lived periods on the Path, but I'm not sure if this is a correct view. Still, it seems that even as the numeric grades (1=10 up to 10=1) can be classed as "Sephirotic Grades," Dominus Liminis and the Babe can be classed as "Veil Grades." One might even classify Probation as another of these Veil Grades.

Jim Eshelman wrote:Consider the symbol of male reproduction.

Its interesting to me that I hadn't considered the male orgasm specifically as requisite for reproduction; seeing as it is, in the majority of cases, required for ejaculation, I don't know why this hasn't crossed my mind until now.

Again, thank you.
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Re: Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:02 am

Zalthos wrote:Also, with this information, I can see how the original G. D. is often considered "Old Aeon," seeing as there are no official rituals past 5=6 except through its successive orders. Does Temple of Thelema resolve this by opening to Briah in its 8°?

Yes.

Jim Eshelman wrote:That's true of 5=6 Within, of course. But the 5=6 grade (5=6 Without) is conferred on completion of the Dominus Liminis grade, and has the singular task of attaining to the K&C of the HGA.

This Within/Without aspect is something I haven't studied much yet. Am right in seeing 5=6 Without being contingent with Dominus Liminis and the Veil of Paroketh; 5=6 Within being contingent with the Sephirotic Grade of 5=6 in Tiphareth, the Adeptus Minor?

No. See One Star in Sight for the division.

5=6 Within and 5=6 Without both correspond to Tifereth in B'riah. (The Veil of Paroketh, as you know, is below Tifereth.) The difference is that 5=6 Without has not yet attained the K&C of the HGA, but has only completed the Dominus Liminis work. 5=6 Within has attained K&C of the HGA. One might as well call them the junior and senior parts of 5=6, so don't get hung up on the exact term used.

Here's the exact quote from OSIS of the breakdown of the 5=6 parts plus the grade before and after.

One Star in Sight wrote:Dominus Liminis. - Is expected to show mastery of Pratyahara and Dharana.

Adeptus (without). - Is expected to perform the Great Work and to attain the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel.

Adeptus (within). - Is admitted to the practice of the formula of the Rosy Cross on entering the College of the Holy Ghost.

Adeptus (Major). - Obtains a general mastery of practical Magick, though without comprehension.


I tend to look at Dominus Liminis and the Babe of the Abyss as very transitional and short-lived periods on the Path, but I'm not sure if this is a correct view.

I would say not. Dominus Liminis, as a formality, is at least six months, and could be much longer (however long it takes to master the raja yoga and other tasks). Babe of the Abyss could last for years (I've seen several reports of it having done so) and, in fact, can be hard to distinguish from 7=4.

Still, it seems that even as the numeric grades (1=10 up to 10=1) can be classed as "Sephirotic Grades," Dominus Liminis and the Babe can be classed as "Veil Grades." One might even classify Probation as another of these Veil Grades.

Same grouping as the other two, yes. One could call Dom. Lim. and BoA the 0=0 grades of the Order R.C. and Order S.S.
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Re: Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby gmugmble » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:09 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:Babe of the Abyss could last for years (I've seen several reports of it having done so) 

Are there published reports of people undergoing the Babe of the Abyss experience?
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Re: Tiphareth as Resurrected Gods

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:18 am

gmugmble wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:Babe of the Abyss could last for years (I've seen several reports of it having done so) 

Are there published reports of people undergoing the Babe of the Abyss experience?

Almost none, besides Crowley's. (In fact, none others I can think of at the moment, off the top of my head. I was thinking of private information.)
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