Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

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Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:57 pm

I found this picture in a book by Gareth Knight.... is it an accurate representation of the Qliphoth tree?

Image


Where do the veils of Tohu (desoltion), Bohu (emptiness) and Chasek (darkness) be found in this representation? And the waters of chaos?

Any imput would be very much appreciated :)
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:17 pm

It's a reasonable representation of the model. (I don't agree with the Malkuth attributions, but the general model is pretty well represented here).

One idea (embodied in some of the Golden Dawn derived initiation rites) is indeed that the Q'lippothic tree extends in an opposite direction from Malkuth, that one has two choices, and these have differing consequences.

There are other simultaneously valid models, also emerging from the same initiatic tradition. For example, the 11-headed serpent symbolizes many things, including shadow elements that ascend the Tree with us (our shadow content increasing with us as we increase in light, at least below the Abyss).
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:45 am

That's very interesting, I would like to find out more about it... any books you can reccommend, please?
What attributions do you think are best for Malkuth?
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:25 am

isn't "the Bride" often associated with Malkuth? That would make more sense if its qliphothic counterpart is "the whore"....
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Takamba » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:41 am

Freya wrote:isn't "the Bride" often associated with Malkuth? That would make more sense if its qliphothic counterpart is "the whore"....


I wouldn't think of "whore" as qliphothic; but of course, I'm not prone to old aeonic judgment models of right and wrong. I'd consider the "prude" or the "barren woman" more counterpart to the Bride. Spinster?

The Bride is the kingdom of Earth, nature itself, which brings to mind the band Nirvana

We can have some more
Nature is a whore
Bruises on the fruit
Tender age in bloom
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:46 am

I think the intension of "The Lord's Presence" is Shekhinah, which is one expression of The Bride. That's probably where he was going with that. The others aren't so bad, I just didn't want to seem to be endorsing every fine point of the diagrams.
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:12 am

Takamba wrote:I wouldn't think of "whore" as qliphothic; but of course, I'm not prone to old aeonic judgment models of right and wrong. I'd consider the "prude" or the "barren woman" more counterpart to the Bride. Spinster?

Yes, as is characteristic of much of Knight's writings, there is a strong Christian theme running through the list. In most cases, this leads to valid conclusions, I think, but some of them are a little extreme.

All of his Q'lippothic items are simply translations (or paraphrases of translations) of the traditional Q'lippothic names. "Whore" is the complement of "Madonna" in his list, in a sense; in any case, it's his rendering of Lilith, the Q'lippothic queen of Malkhuth, his attempt to circumvent the name with some idea people will latch onto meaningfully. It would be more honest to say, "My own desire nature is out of control" than to say, "That woman is a whore!" <g> Nonetheless, I think that's the basic idea he's going for there.
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:01 am

Did Crowley do a similar diagram for the qliphoth?
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:18 am

Freya wrote:Did Crowley do a similar diagram for the qliphoth?

I don't remember one offhand.
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Faust » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:49 am

For a guy reputed to be “evil”, Crowley seems to have written very little on the qliphoth.
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:53 am

Faust wrote:For a guy reputed to be “evil”, Crowley seems to have written very little on the qliphoth.

He catalogued them. But nowhere in any system he produced or taught is there any direct work with them required - with one exception: At least one key astral investigation of the Q'lippoth is included in every exam he ever issued for moving from Neophyte 1=10 to Zelator 2=9 in A.'.A.'.. It's long been recognized as one of the key elements of that final exam.

One of the holy books addresses them tangentially. You can find his confrontation of some of them throughout The Vision & the Voice. Other things here and there. He also taught methods and approaches to life that tend to release the living energy locked in old lifeless forms, which mostly makes the matter a moot point most of the time.
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:02 am

did Abramelin talk about them?
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:05 am

Freya wrote:did Abramelin talk about them?

Not under that name, and it doesn't seem to me that the "Abramelin demons" (less judgmentally: spirits) are not the same as Q'lippoth.

Q'lippoth are residual lifeless forms that are still retained. They shouldn't be confused with "demons" in general.
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:52 pm

Aha!!! Now it makes sense!!! :D :D :D
THANK YOU!!!!
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:04 pm

Jim wrote: For example, the 11-headed serpent symbolizes many things, including shadow elements that ascend the Tree with us (our shadow content increasing with us as we increase in light, at least below the Abyss).

Jim, I was thinking about your words and asked myself how is this possible? Is it because the more we know the more potential we have to do serious harm? By ascending the Tree do you mean walking the paths and spheres?
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:27 pm

Increasing n "spirituality" does not, by itself, resolve negative patterns. It may alter our perspectives so that we, in turn, undertake to resolve old patterns, but this doesn't happen automatically.

So, as we grow, we just become expanded versions of the same critter that we were at the beginning. "Great people have great flaws: Everything about them is great." To change old patterns we have to actually place attention n changing old patterns, not just "increase in Light."
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:21 am

Thank you Jim, that makes a lot of sense. Regarding the Tree and its averse reflection, are there any Angel - Demons correspondences? i.e. seraphim, cherubim and their averse correspondences to the spheres?

I am trying to use the tree as a cosmic filing cabinet :)
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:35 am

Freya wrote:Thank you Jim, that makes a lot of sense. Regarding the Tree and its averse reflection, are there any Angel - Demons correspondences? i.e. seraphim, cherubim and their averse correspondences to the spheres?

I am trying to use the tree as a cosmic filing cabinet :)

The primary correspondences to the aversely reflected Tree are the Q'lippoth.
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Fr Seraphis » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:06 am

Freya wrote:That's very interesting, I would like to find out more about it... any books you can reccommend, please?
What attributions do you think are best for Malkuth?

Here is the picture:
http://herbalwitchcraft.com/blog/wp-con ... t-tree.gif

More on the subject in a very interesting book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0972182063/

More info at:
http://www.dragonrouge.net/

Hope that helps.
:)
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:14 am

The names are in 777 and 776 1/2.

There is a slightly obscure Golden Dawn paper from the Second Order called "The Unclean Spirits." It's probably the most relevantly detailed discussion of characteristics, but it takes some work. If sufficiently interested, you ought to be able to find a copy. (Going from memory, I think one of Zalewski's books reproduced it.)
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:41 pm

Thank you Jim, I am very interested to know more from reliable sources. Where can I find Zalewski's books?
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:50 pm

Freya wrote:Thank you Jim, I am very interested to know more from reliable sources. Where can I find Zalewski's books?

http://www.amazon.com/Kabbalah-Golden-D ... t+zalewski

I think it's in this one. Can't promise without looking.
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Freya » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:51 am

It contains the Qlipoth lessons by Mathers, so it looks like it can very well be the one. Thank you so much Jim. I have liber 777 but I find it hard to navigate on my own.

Returning to Malkuth the bride vs Lilith the whore, isn't Lilith more an "anti mother"? Maybe this applies more to the reverse of Malkuth?
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby David S » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:36 am

What's so bad about Litigators? :evil:
"But all we say and do, however casually, adds up to more, far more, than our most strenuous Operations. 'Take care of the pence, and the pounds will take care of themselves.'" - Commentaries of AL
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Re: Tree of Life- Averse Reflection

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:41 am

Lol, it has something to do with the mental processes? :)
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