Qabalistic worlds question

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Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Iguana » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:19 am

93

Hello guys, Ive beenhaving trouble understanding and distinguishing some labels in the TOL.
I dont fully understand the differences/similarities and overlap between the qabalistic worlds: atziluth, briah, yetzirah, assiah and the jechidah, chiah, neschamah, ruach, nephesch.
I saw a couple of months ago a video on youtube by Lon DuQuette where he explained the qabalistic worlds as mental functions and the process of evolution/creation of a thought or idea. But I have wobbly understanding of the relationship and overlap with the other concepts.
If someone could be so kind as to take time and school me on the subject I would be very grateful.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Hermitas » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:10 am

93

That's quite an essay you're requesting. Lol.

Is there any way you could post a diagram you've seen recently? - With maybe a question about how a specific world and part of the Self correspond?

Somebody else may just be able to post a link to something helpful though.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Starry Soul » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:17 am

Yeah, ask specific questions.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:27 am

Agreeing with everybody else: That's a lot.

There are some threads somewhere on this site covering the four worlds. I suggest ignoring as pure rubbish those presentations of the Four Worlds that use "overlapping, slid" trees (e.g., treating Tifereth of one world as Malkuth of another, etc.). The entire Tree exists in all four Worlds, and this is best diagrammed by complete Kether-to-Kether overlap of the "four trees" on top of each other.

I give descriptions of the four Worlds and the parts of the psyche you asked about in my books Visions & Voices and Pearls of Wisdom and, as mentioned already, some of this is in dedicated threads elsewhere on this forum.

And... ask specific questions :)
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Hermitas » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:33 pm

Here's one I found, but I want to say I've seen a different model that I just kind find right now. So corrections?

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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Gnosomai Emauton » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:47 pm

If you're looking for general descriptions and overview, chapter 6 of DuQuette's Chicken Qabalah would be my recommendation. Once you've got the language cleared up and the framework firmly implanted in mind, you might find that the specific questions you have are a bit more... um... specific. ;)
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Heru » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:58 pm

I believe the OP is asking how the Four Worlds relate/correspond to the constitution of man.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Hermitas » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:24 pm

Like two different analytical spectrums lined up side by side.

I mean, it's a correspondence of symbolism, higher to lower. This mental state of awareness of self corresponds to this qabalistic world in the mental order of creation.

Like that?
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:29 pm

Heru wrote:I believe the OP is asking how the Four Worlds relate/correspond to the constitution of man.

And that, by itself, is a question only adequately answered by a really long essay, if not a small book (be cause it changes and shifts across the course of initiation).

A better question would be how the Constitution relates to the S'fiyroth.

The Tree the OP gave above, divided into the four Worlds, might better be called the map of how World transitions occur during A.'.A.'. progress. (It doesn't fit all other systems, though Aurum Solis follows the same model and works at the same scale.) I put it this way so that it is clear that these are not intrinsic World divisions for the spheres, because every s'fiyroth is in ever World. But this does show one particular map of progress.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Hermitas » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:33 pm

I'll try the non-essay version:

If I'm in a Particle Man state of awareness, that's described one way in terms of sense of self.

In terms of world (context), that one state of consciousness may have a partner, several partners, or none.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:35 pm

I haven't a clue what that means.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Hermitas » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:38 pm

Lol.

Well, some of us speak shorthand.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Hermitas » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:45 pm

Like the diagram above corresponds world (context) with the divisions of the soul and the sephiroth.

It's all relating states of consciousness in terms of three methods of analysis. This fits here on this spectrum.

So one part of the self, the Ruach, for instance, is native to both worlds, Yetzirah and Briah, while Geburah has three "partners" in Briah. Groupings within groupings. It's correlations of state of consciosness, "body," and qabalistic world.

Broad question, broad answer.

Best I got.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Hermitas » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:04 pm

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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Al-Shariyf » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:48 pm

I'll try to keep this as simple and straight forward as possible:

The model of the "4 worlds" illustrates 4 ways in which ONE THING expresses its existence. The worlds are fields and the sephiroth are different modes of activity in the field. This model is distinct from the constitution of man, which also illustrates 4 ways in which ONE THING expresses it's existence. Or more accurately put, different modes of existence of one thing and it's behavior in each level of existence.

The 4 world model is macrocosmic. The consitution of man is microcosmic. There is no difference between theese two, so to know one is to know the other and vice versa. And given that there is no real difference between the one and other, there are correlations between the two. As Hermitas pointed out, there are parts of the consitution of man that are native to and occupy different worlds.

Keep in mind that there are just models. There are no inherent truths in them. But they are definitely convenient.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Iguana » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:29 pm

Thank you all for your answers, I attatched an image of the Tree that I use as refference.


The overlapping I asked about, for example: the relationship between the Chiah and Atziluth and why they are both ordered around Chokmah.

The same with Briah and Neschamah

I apologize if my question seemed vague, I dont really have an appropriate handle of the concepts of Jechidah, Chiah, Neschamah, ruach and Nephesch.
Ive explored the 4 Worlds according to what I understood from the video I mentioned by Lon DuQuette and was hoping to find a relationship between them and the 5 parts of the soul.

Ive unleashed the mighty Googles to help me out as well :lol:
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Re: Qabalistic worlds question

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:49 pm

Iguana wrote:The overlapping I asked about, for example: the relationship between the Chiah and Atziluth and why they are both ordered around Chokmah.

Chiah is the faculty of human consciousness attributed to Chokmah - in fact, I most readily describe the s'fiyroth by these psychological / psychospiritual attributions, so I'm inclined to say that Chiah is usually what we mean when we speak of Chokmah.

Chokmah exists in all four worlds. Chiah does not - it's a Supernal faculty, a fundamental characteristic of the Atziyluthic part of us. Chiah has strong relationships with other, denser aspects of our psychospiritual being, but Chiah itself is inherently Atziyluthic.

Additionally, the Divine Name YHVH, which is the structural formula on which the Tree of Life and its primary attributions are based, assigns each of its four letters to one or more s'fiyroth, parts of the psyche, and World. This doesn't mean that all three of those attributes correspond to each other, though, only that they corresponded to one of the letters. Consider that you can say Donald Trump has horrible hair and billions of dollars, but that doesn't mean that everyone with horrible hair has billions of dollars. Similarly, Chokmah, Chiah, and Atziyluth are each the Yod of their respective frameworks, but are not necessarily cognate with each other.

same with Briah and Neschamah

Exactly the same, yes! Biynah, B'riyah, and N'shamah are each the Heh of their respective frameworks, but not are not necessarily matched to each other. The port that IS a one-for-one is Biynah and N'shamah. B'riyah isn't a one-for-one match, first because Biynah (like all s'fiyroth) exists in all four Worlds, and second because different training methods would open different levels at their Biynah stage. For example, the Golden Dawn would have opened to B'riyah at Biynah if they ever had any actual 8-3 initiates, but A.'. A.'. opens to B'riyah coincidental with the attainment of Tifereth.

I apologize if my question seemed vague, I dont really have an appropriate handle of the concepts of Jechidah, Chiah, Neschamah, ruach and Nephesch.

You need that. It's basic. Things I referred you to earlier will help clarify what these are.

[quote]Ive explored the 4 Worlds according to what I understood from the video I mentioned by Lon DuQuette and was hoping to find a relationship between them and the 5 parts of the soul.[.quote]
It's not a simple one,. For example, the correspondence when we start isn't the same as the correspondence as we progress. Rooach begins as a Y'tziyratic aspect of consciousness but, with sufficient initiation, opens itself to B'riyah as its native state. The most accurate diagram would be about function, not location, and would put the main aspects of consciousness between two adjacent Worlds, bridging them. An idea to play with is that the three "breaths" (Nefesh, Rooach, N'shamah) are the Three that interpenetrate the Four that are the Worlds.
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