Astrological Tarot

[Middleman]

I tried searching and reading, but I can't figure out why the cards are off-set by ten degrees. I was born in the last decan of Cancer and my card is Fixed Fire?

[Takamba]

I don't use the astrological associations attached to the tarot to speak in astrological terms, I use the astrological associations similar to the concept of using Arabic symbols for English numbering. That is, I'm not using, say, astrological "Mars in Aries" to describe to me the two of wands, but "The Tower in the Emperor" (hard to explain).

As for answering your concern about the 10 degrees and Decans or Decantes, I'm sure Jim will provide solid arguments for his ideas. The basic thing is this, dividing the sky into 36 segments of 10 degrees was something that came into fashion about the time the Golden Dawn was active. This may or may not be a valid thing for astrology (i'm not an astrologist, but Jim is, and his arguments should be observed). But the notion that the minor arcana have a 36 number to them, the same way the tarot as a whole has a 3, a 7, a 10, and a 12 in it, means they can be associated.

Don't get overly worked up about it. If it doesn't work for you, then don't heed it. But don't give up without exhausting yourself.

[Jim Eshelman]

I tried searching and reading, but I can't figure out why the cards are off-set by ten degrees. I was born in the last decan of Cancer and my card is Fixed Fire? Thanks for help.

Go to http://thelema.org/publications/index.html and download a free copy of my book Liber Theta. The pattern is explained there.

There is another piece I didn't go into, though, because (1) it was confusing and (2) it had nothing to do with the practical purpose of the book. It's that MacGregor Mathers was trying to invent his own constellational (sidereal) zodiac, and what he thought was the displacement at the time was 20°. So, you might think he was trying to show the cards as bounding sidereal signs but in the Tropical Zodiac. But he got it backwards, and it's a big half-baked.

Nonetheless, there is a sound doctrinal basis for which three decanates are selected for each of the Court Cards.

[Middleman]

Thanks guys, I looked through the book but I can't find it. My basic question is why is Fixed fire 20 Cancer-20 Leo instead of 0-30 Leo?

[Jim Eshelman]

The chapter on Court Cards. The first two pages give the theory. The rest of the chapter works out the details.

Cardinal-Fixed-Mutable that you cite isn't relevant to the pattern.

[Middleman]

Thank you, sir!

"the first two decanates (i.e., the first 20°) of one sign, of the element to which the card’s suit cor- responds, and the last decanate (or 10°) of the preceding sign, which is of a contrary element. By this bridging of two signs, the Court Cards are said to bind together the 12 parts of the zodiac."

[Hermitas]

Okay, I'll take a shot.

Your birth date does not correspond to Fixed Fire. You don't determine that from the Court Cards; you determine that from the Sign itself. Anything else is a misapplication. So, again, you're not Fixed fire. If you're Cancer, then your corresponding elemental quality is Cardinal Water. Don't let that confuse you any longer. You are correct that your birthday *does not* fall under the Sign of Leo, which is Fixed Fire.

However, the Court Cards do break down differently than the Signs. It's only used that way if you're meditating, selecting a Significator for a reading, or if you're trying to determine a window for the birthdate of a person (Court Card) that shows up in a reading. But it doesn't have anything to do with determining the elemental quality of the Sign under which a person was born.

So, yes, your late Cancer birthday makes you a Cancer Sun-Sign (which is Cardinal Water). But if you're looking to represent yourself in a reading according to your birthdate, then you are the Prince of Wands, which, yes, is made primarily up of Leo decans with one Cancer decan. But that doesn't mean "you're Fixed Fire." It doesn't have anything to do with that. That is determined by the actual Sign alone.

For an explanation of why the decans are separated like this, please see Liber Theta, p. 62, para. 4 & 5.