Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

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Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Modest » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:11 pm

Historically one can see that GD and AA systems Qabbalah Tree of Life & Tarot are geocentric as they include the planet "Moon" out of the 7 planet symbolism but the heliocentric view strikes out the Moon as it is not a planet.

The question is how do you knowing that the heliocentric view is the correct one still can use a geocentric system? As I understand most of the wester magic is made of 12 zodiac signs, 7 planets, 4 or 5 elements. It was all good and nice until we found out a lot more about the universe as there are more than 12 signs and more than 7 planets etc. How do you update the old models or do you separate your psyche in two parts and go back and forward between old and new view? Are there attempts to make the Qabbalah Tree of Life & Tarot heliocentric?
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Takamba » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:02 pm

Personally, I think of it as Takambacentric. The geocentre simply being where I'm standing. Life, as I understand it, is heliocentric, and so for outer realms and other's concerns (the mob, the mass, the eternal), my view is not exact, so I switch to a heliocentric lens when discussing. Fortunately, Uranus and Pluto and Neptune serve as great "lunar" type explanations for things when I'm serving the Crown.

That's how I think on it.
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby seekinghga » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:21 pm

Takamba wrote:Personally, I think of it as Takambacentric.

I can't argue with that notion! :)
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Hermitas » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:50 pm

You aren’t on the Sun.

The Moon affects the Earth’s tides and has affected our entire evolution.

Like the Takambacentric perspective, the central point of perspective is you.
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Hermitas » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:52 pm

How do you get that anybody just recently learned there are actually 13 constellations? They had eyes too.

They chose 12 equal portions of the sky on purpose.
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Hermitas » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:59 pm

Regarding planets: I find a worthy coincidence in that there are 7 *visible* heavenly bodies, corresponding to the other esoteric 7s, and I don’t worry about it too much.
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Modest » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:11 am

I think it is just hard to subscribe to a magical system that is tied to a geocentric world view. They say as above so below, the microcosm is like the macrocosm but if the saints and mystics really knew what they are saying they would have told us that we are orbiting the sun and not the sun is orbiting us. Most of the old magical systems I know have a geocentric view and all the practitioners with their practical results could not tell us that we are orbiting the sun. So it feels that the old magical systems don't give that much knowledge and wisdom if they could not figure this out.

So far I understand that I need an up to date magical system, magic like sigil, chaos magic that incorporates what we know about the world today, the facts that are true now but were unknown before. I don't know how do you update the Qabbalah or the Tarot as clearly our society grew up out of the knowledge that the world was created like in the Bible and the social structure is more mixed than it is shown in the Tarot. Today's society like sigil magic created their own new symbols and gods and bibles.
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Takamba » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:26 am

Mysticism should be Heliocentric
Magick system should be magician centric

'nuff said

(ps. Study the ritual of Liber V for your larger cosmological work you are looking for) (test it, taste it, turn it on it's side, flip it around, spin it, see what you get)
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Modest » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:53 am

Takamba wrote:Mysticism should be Heliocentric
Magick system should be magician centric


Thanks for your opinion.
I think as the magician deals with the outside world influencing outside results he clearly needs a heliocentric view to have results on the outside world - clearly the outside world is harder to get control of. The mystic deals usually only with his inner self so he can be self-centric and exercise more easy self control.
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Hermitas » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:21 am

I think a few years of making astrological observations would change your mind.

For instance, the experience of a transiting planet’s retrograde, where it appears (but only from the Earth) to pass a natal point, reverse back over it, and then pass it a third time, would convince you of the valitldity of a magician-centric (geocentric) perspective.

Success is your proof. Do what thou wilt.
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby seekinghga » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:26 am

Modest wrote:the outside world is harder to get control of.

The mystic deals usually only with his inner self

What's the difference besides approach? Hadit is Nuit to Hadit, afterall.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:58 pm

Sunsets are a geocentric phenomenon. They're also magic as {****}.
Every man and every woman is a star.
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Takamba » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:22 am

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:Sunsets are a geocentric phenomenon. They're also magic as {****}.


Aum Ha!
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Re: Heliocentric view in Qabbalah & Tarot, practice?

Postby Takamba » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:23 am

The magician has a man's view
The mystic has a god's view
Choose your system well
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