Santeria & Qabalah

Q&A and discussion on the Hermetic Qabbalah

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Re: Santeria & Qabalah

Postby Labyrinthus » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:45 pm

h2h wrote:The exchange has stuck in my mind over the years and is consistent with the advice given in Abramelin - that is, one should work within the tradition he or she was born and raised within and avoid mixing and matching, picking and choosing concepts he or she prefers. All paths lead to Rome but the point is to stick with the path one is born into - for reasons that become clear later.

I would be interested to hear opinions on the above..

I think this is very good advice too. As a very young man I was yet another typical dupe who bought into all the anti-catholic bigotry and outright falsehoods that the bigots were so effectively brainwashing the world with.

I went off and began following an Eastern type mystic Path. After a couple decades I discovered that there was a contemplative tradition in the Roman Catholic practice that basically did the same thing that the eastern paths did. The Cloud of Unknowing clearly lays out a method that if adhered to as instructed would lead to the Highest states of Consciousness. The roadmap laid out was very thorough and covered the problems likely to be encountered in very clear fashion. For 900AD the work might well be an outline of Spiritual Practice that surpasses anything that any other culture might have produced at that point in time. It is written in a manner that is eminently understandable to the Western mind... unlike much of what I encountered in the Eastern traditions.

couldawouldashoulda....
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Re: Santeria & Qabalah

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:36 pm

I think one should find and stick to the tradition which is one's own, but that it won't necessarily be the one into which you were born. Among magicians, it rarely is.

Even within this, of course, it is useful - almost mandatory - that one also be well-rounded in familiarity with other traditions.
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Re: Santeria & Qabalah

Postby Michael » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:07 am

I agree totally with Jim here.
Here another comparision I found in the Book "Voodoo Praxis" by Papa Shanga (German)

Image

And yes the other image was taken from Kenneth Grants "Cult of the Shadow"
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Re: Santeria & Qabalah

Postby Michael » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:57 am

And another comparision:
This time between the Palo Mayombe, Cathlics Saints and Santeria Orishas
Image
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Re: Santeria & Qabalah

Postby gmugmble » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:52 am

h2h wrote:The exchange has stuck in my mind over the years and is consistent with the advice given in Abramelin - that is, one should work within the tradition he or she was born and raised within and avoid mixing and matching, picking and choosing concepts he or she prefers. All paths lead to Rome but the point is to stick with the path one is born into - for reasons that become clear later.

I would be interested to hear opinions on the above.

I would never be able to pursue the Protestant Xian path that I was born into. I find it incredibly stifling.
Also (center of pestilence alert!), my interpretation of various passages in the Book of the Law is that one of the tasks or "ordeals" in the new aeon is to abandon any nostalgic attachment to the religion of our childhood and find one's own unique path.
-- Robert W

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Re: Santeria & Qabalah

Postby FrAAAAAM » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:06 pm

h2h wrote:Mr. Schwartz did not reply but, judging from other remarks, it was clear that 1) he believes that Kabbalah and the Tree of Life should be studied strictly within the Jewish tradition and language and that 2) - to my surprise - he had a low opinion of 777 - possibly because AC felt no qualms about mapping Roman/Greek/Egyptian deities onto the Tree of Life.

Mr Schwartz does not practice Jewish Kabbalah his self, but does advocate practices that are considered dangerous in conventional Kabbalah. In fact, any suggestion of traditional Kabbalistic Theurgy as opposed to Thamaturgy receives a worse response from him than suggesting Crowley was a Holy person or that Thelema is a valid paradigm. He was very harsh when I suggested Talit and Tefillim were the traditional Kabbalistic "Magical Tools". And then sent me a nasty nasty email because I am Sabbatian and have written articles on Sexual Theurgic practices for a Pagan Magazine. Mr Schwartz does have an excellent command of Hebrew grammar and linguistics but he is extremely prejudiced, and quite a hypocrite in my opinion. He attempts to give an unearned legitimacy to W. Gray's teachings as if they are in-line with traditional Kabbalah... they are not! and would be considered very negatively. Kabbalists in the Lurianic School "never" chant aloud. Some Sefardim do but this must be balanced with silent chanting. Mr Schwartz hides such dynamics from his students, and does not warn them of changes in the Ma'asah Mercabah that make the old ways very dangerous. He is a poser at best, and likes to name drop a family link to the Holy ARIZAL, OBM... while chastising any real Lurianic Kabbalists that cross his path.

M. Mathers tried to do use certain old methods with some Qliphotic Mercabah related material. The release of this lecture coincided with the Horos scandal where Mathers thought Madame Horos was the legendary Soror SDA. The fall from the Palace of Tifareth is described in the Zohar as the often observed "ego Inflation" of Occult leaders... they become "enamored of a false reflection" which they mistake for Deity and thus never realize they were shuttled into the "Other Side" of the Sefirah.

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Dennis
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Re: Santeria & Qabalah

Postby magictortoise » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:33 pm

The first time i've heard of the two being mentioned together is when i got New Orleans Voodoo Tarot (from someone born into Santeria: )
http://www.astroamerica.com/t-voodoo.html
I did couple of readings with it, with the accompanying book , it is an awesome reading deck and it seems to incorporate both somehow effortlessly, it all fits together... but for me personally its just too much info, i can't possibly be bothered to memorize all of it.
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