Tzaddi is not the Star

Q&A and discussion on the Hermetic Qabbalah

Moderator: Moderators - Public

Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Heru » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:38 am

I've been looking at Crowley's Emperor / Star swap just lately. As far as I can see the swap solves one problem but creates another.

Crowley's swap seems to correct the attribution to the text of the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom.
The text for the 15th path and it's traditional Golden Dawn attribution of the Emperor reads:
The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it."

To me the Star is a much better fit for that text than the Emperor. Equally the text for the 28th path seems to correspond better to the Emperor than it's traditional attribution to the Star:
The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.

So far Crowley's swap is all well and good and seems to have smoothed out all the little problems in the Golden Dawn attributions. But in the act of solving one problem it creates another.
Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.

When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.

Crowley's swap seems to solve one problem by creating another. Are Crowley's apparent mix ups in the Book of Thoth intended to show that both old and new attributions are correct?
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Re: Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:05 am

Heru wrote:Crowley says that the Emperor is attributed the astrological sign of Aries and placed on the 28th path, and the Star is Aquarius and placed on the 15th. This breaks with the Yetziratic tradition that says that Heh = Aries = 15th path. Tzaddi = Aquarius = 28th path.

Right. The corrected attributions are: Heh = Aquarius = 15th Path, Tzaddi = Aries = 28th Path

When you swap the astrological signs around to conform with their respective cards, they don't seem to fit any more. This is quite frustrating. I mean, Aries on the 28th path between Yesod and Netzach! How does that work? I can understand the placement of the Emperor there but not the sign of Aries. It just doesn't fit.

I disagree entirely! It's a wonderful fit IMHO.

For starters, haven't you noticed that, more often than not - at least on the superficial "first impression" level - the Paths seem mismatched - almost the opposite - of the Sephiroth they connect? The Devil sits between two bright Sephiroth, those of Sol and Mercury - Netzach connects to Tiphereth through a Mars-ruled path, and Geburah through a Venus-ruled one. Gimel lies between the Father and the Son (something that, in the new attribution, The Star - Heh - also does). From Malkuth, a Path of Fire goes to a Water sphere and a path of Water goes to Fire. And so on for at least most of the 22.

Now, these are pretty superficial first impressions - but I mention them because, as far as I can see, it is only at that level where it seems bizarre that the most paternal (and one of the most masculine) cards lies between Venus and the Moon.

As to the exact way Aries per se fits, I'm not quite sure where to start. To put it another way, I have about a page and a half on it from a T.'.O.'.T.'. primary document that I can't reproduce as such, and was looking through just now to see if there was a simple statement or two I could lift out of it, and I see that I might go off on a direction mostly unrelated to your question. If you can raise again just what you see as the issue of Aries on the 28th Path, I probably can address the exact point.

Maybe this is a start: The Emperor is "Sovereign Reason," by which the abundant instinctual energies of Yesod are lifted up unto those channels of devotion and desire that characterize Netzach. The word Tzaddi means "to contemplate," and the form of contemplation, or meditation, which uses the fish-hook to draw the fish from the water is what we commonly call Raja (i.e., Royal) Yoga.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Lost His Marbles
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:41 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Heru » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:32 am

93
Jim Eshelman wrote:If you can raise again just what you see as the issue of Aries on the 28th Path, I probably can address the exact point.

First of all I agree with what you say about the function of Tzaddi and the Emperor on the 28th path. Besides the injunction of Liber Legis 1:57 I think there are some good reasons why the Emperor should symbolise the transmission of energy between Netzach and Yesod. After all, the 28th path is pretty low down on the Tree and is part of the sphere of the limited personality.

But, as I've already said, my main beef is with the sign of Aries. The 28th path is supposed to be a path symbolic of the creative imagination and dreamy, artistic qualities. To me that sounds like a perfect match for Aquarius. But Aries? Hmm.. :?

Maybe I'm missing something in my understanding? I have noticed that you interpret the meaning of the path from a different perspective from me. For some reason I always view that path as a flow of creative imagination, seated in Netzach, flowing down to the subconscious in Yesod.
You, on the other hand, see the flow from Yesod to Netzach. That seems more controlled and deliberate to me. A possible reason for the placement of Aries? Instead of the passive downward flow of watery Aquarius there is the climbing conscious control of Aries. Love under will?

93
93/93
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Re: Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:20 am

Heru wrote:The 28th path is supposed to be a path symbolic of the creative imagination and dreamy, artistic qualities. To me that sounds like a perfect match for Aquarius. But Aries? Hmm.. :?

I wouldn't say that at all. Not dreamy in the slightest. Where did those ideas come from? Dreamy and artistic? Uh-uh. The attribute - arising from the literal meaning of the word tzaddi - is meditation.

Tzaddi could be expected to be just as "soft, cushy, Venus" as A'ayin, The Devil (opening into Tiphereth) is a symbol of light, as much as Shin, The Aeon (opening into Hod) is a path of Water or Qoph, The Moon (opening into Netzach) is a Path of Fire, or as much as The Hanged Man is the epitome of martial ferocity. And, of course, these are all examples where these are not the first-impression (or even second-impression) meaning of the Paths. The way that A'ayin relates to Tiphereth, Shin to Hod, Qoph to Netzach, or Meym to Geburah are less cut-and-dried than that. The associations are all there, but they aren't very "in your face" about it. The same, I submit, is true of Tzaddi and Netzach.

There is nothing dreamy about the Path at all. Following the pattern opf all the Paths, the key idea here is that it is the process or experience whereby Yesod opens itself to Netzach, i.e., the primal release of stored instinctual energies (Yesod) into the fiery, passionate desire component of the personality. (A possibly useful aside: The A.'.A.'. task for working the Path of Tzaddi is Meditation SSS from Liber HHH.)

For some reason I always view that path as a flow of creative imagination, seated in Netzach, flowing down to the subconscious in Yesod.

"Creative imagination" is an attribute of Daleth specifically, so I can see why it is tempting to give it to Netzach - but it just doesn't match any experience I have of Netzach at all. (Daleth and Netzach are strongly related, but aren't at all the same thing.) As a personality component, Netzach is desire - the fiery aspect of the personality - the demanding "wanna," what I sometimes call "True Want."

You, on the other hand, see the flow from Yesod to Netzach.

Well, actually, no - the flow is always downwards. The perception of motion is commonly upwards, but the main thing is that the Yesod in us opens itself to the influx of the essence of Netzach.

I just don't see anything dreamy about this - Netzach is not that sort of Venus. I base this on experience of the developmental stages of "walking the Tree," both the passage through the A.'.A.'. 4=7 Grade and the lower octaves of T.'.O.'.T.'. 4° (and its equivalents in related G.D.-rooted Orders). The Sephiroth below Tiphereth, in the process of personal evolution, operate primarily in terms of the Elements, so Netzach is Fire before it is anything else.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Lost His Marbles
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:41 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Heru » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:58 pm

Thanks Jim. The whole Emperor / Tzaddi / Aries / 28th path thing makes a lot more sense to me now. In fact it seems totally logical. :)

Although the swap does kind of mess up Crowley's tarot correspondence to the formula of ALHIM in MTP chp4.

in the centre of all, broods Spirit, which combines the mildness of the Lamb with the horns of the Ram :?
Jim Eshelman wrote:I wouldn't say that at all. Not dreamy in the slightest. Where did those ideas come from? Dreamy and artistic? Uh-uh. The attribute - arising from the literal meaning of the word tzaddi - is meditation.

I think that's a case of me carelessly confusing the the letter Tzaddi with the attributes of the Star. Sloppy. :roll:
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Re: Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:01 am

Heru wrote:Although the swap does kind of mess up Crowley's tarot correspondence to the formula of ALHIM in MTP chp4.

Remember that, before Book of Thoth, Crowley was highly ambivalent about giving out the correct attribution. Liber L. had said he'd reveal it to the wise, and, althogh he had this worked out at least by WW I, it was the mid-1940s before he took the position, "Heck, only the wise are likely to have any idea what I'm talking about anyway." Therefore, before that time, he'd primarily write with the old symbolism and occasionally let some of the Heh = Star stuff sneak out (see Liber Aleph, for example; and places where he was being subtle in MT&P).

It remains true in ALHYM that "in the centre of all, broods Spirit" - in fact, "broods" is a maternal term far more fitting of Heh as Mother than Heh as Father. Just throw out the gratuitous lamb/ram stuff and you'll see that the core is the same.

Jim Eshelman wrote:I wouldn't say that at all. Not dreamy in the slightest. Where did those ideas come from? Dreamy and artistic? Uh-uh. The attribute - arising from the literal meaning of the word tzaddi - is meditation.

I think that's a case of me carelessly confusing the the letter Tzaddi with the attributes of the Star. Sloppy. :roll:

FWIW, I don't think of The Star as dreamy either - it's Aquarian, Uranian, electrical, stunning, awakening, revelation, naked truth, bullshit dropped, incongruous "getting it," serene streaming of unbuffered understanding, etc.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Lost His Marbles
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:41 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Heru » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:02 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:Remember that, before Book of Thoth, Crowley was highly ambivalent about giving out the correct attribution.

Sometimes when I read the Book of Thoth I think that Crowley was still a little ambivalent about giving out the correct attribution. All those mix ups and errors in the Book of Thoth look so contrived. I can't believe that a guy of Crowley's intelligence, despite his age, could have made so many glaring blunders. Unless he was throwing a little sand in the air just for fun. :wink:

Crowley's "apparent" confusion on this subject and the opinions of other authorities have always held me back on this whole business of the swap. Most books that touch on the subject dismiss the swap as a complete mistake, like Robert Wang in his The Qabalistic Tarot. And even the rare exception that does place the Emperor on the 28th Path, i.e. Gareth Knight in his A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism, still does not accept that Aries could possibly fit on the 28th path.

But what you have said above is making everything much clearer. :)
Jim Eshelman wrote:Therefore, before that time, he'd primarily write with the old symbolism and occasionally let some of the Heh = Star stuff sneak out (see Liber Aleph, for example; and places where he was being subtle in MT&P).

Liber Aleph is a good example, even though it wasn't published in Crowley's life time. But there is a minor problem there too. Although all the current print versions of Liber Aleph say this in chp.167:
Next, from the Father floweth the Virtue of the Star in the Path of the Water-bearer, for Initiative, and Energy, and Determination.

I've been told that older versions say this:
Next, from the Father floweth the Power of the Emperor in the Path of the Ram, for Initiative, and Energy, and Determination.

This is from the version hosted at www.hermetic.com
I've been led to believe that the change in the text was only made in the last 10 or 15 years. I suppose if someone owns an older copy of Aleph we could verify this claim. :wink:
Jim Eshelman wrote:FWIW, I don't think of The Star as dreamy either - it's Aquarian, Uranian, electrical, stunning, awakening, revelation, naked truth, bullshit dropped, incongruous "getting it," serene streaming of unbuffered understanding, etc.

I pretty much agree with you. But I would also add that the Star represents aspirations, hope, and even dreams concerning the future. Where I see dreaminess is in the negative aspect of the Star. Too much focus on the future while the present moment is slipping away.
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Postby redd fezz » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:27 am

So, does this mean we swap the positions on the Cube of Space, too? The reason I ask is because The Emperor is pretty well cemented in it's rightful place on the Cube of Space. it's not as easy as just switching a couple paths. The Emperor and The Star both have meaninful relationships all over the place on the Cube of Space.
User avatar
redd fezz
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:25 pm
Location: ah, feels good be back home again

Re: Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:00 pm

Heru wrote:Liber Aleph is a good example, even though it wasn't published in Crowley's life time. But there is a minor problem there too. Although all the current print versions of Liber Aleph say this in chp.167:
Next, from the Father floweth the Virtue of the Star in the Path of the Water-bearer, for Initiative, and Energy, and Determination.

I've been told that older versions say this:
Next, from the Father floweth the Power of the Emperor in the Path of the Ram, for Initiative, and Energy, and Determination.

This is from the version hosted at www.hermetic.com
I've been led to believe that the change in the text was only made in the last 10 or 15 years. I suppose if someone owns an older copy of Aleph we could verify this claim. :wink:

I have the first edition in my hand at the moment - It says, "Next, from the Father flowesth the Virtue of the Star in the Path of the Water-bearer," &c. - But I agree it seems as if the passage were originally written with Aries in mind.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Lost His Marbles
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:41 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Heru » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:12 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:I have the first edition in my hand at the moment - It says, "Next, from the Father flowesth the Virtue of the Star in the Path of the Water-bearer," &c. - But I agree it seems as if the passage were originally written with Aries in mind.

Thanks for taking a look Jim and setting the matter straight. I guess the Hermetic.com version must be taken from an early draft or something.

I think there is one piece of evidence that is encoded in the actual design of the cards themselves. If you spread out the Thoth Major's in the pattern of the Tree of Life (including Daath) you find that there are some quite uncanny symmetries between the card pairings in each sephirah.

The most obvious is the Lovers and the Devil in Tiphareth and the same horizontal division near the top of the cards Fortune and Lust in Malkuth. But in order to keep the pattern consistent throughout you have to swap the Emperor with the Star. The Empress and the Emperor are a perfect symbolic match in Chesed. And the The Moon and the Star in Daath both share a similar horizontal division at the lower end.
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Re: Tzaddi is not the Star

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:50 am

Heru wrote:The most obvious is the Lovers and the Devil in Tiphareth and the same horizontal division near the top of the cards Fortune and Lust in Malkuth. But in order to keep the pattern consistent throughout you have to swap the Emperor with the Star. The Empress and the Emperor are a perfect symbolic match in Chesed. And the The Moon and the Star in Daath both share a similar horizontal division at the lower end.

How are you laying these out? I thought you said you were laying them out as they fall on the Tree, but that wouldn't put either Teth or Kaph anywhere near Malkuth, so I'm sure I'm missing something.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Lost His Marbles
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:41 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Postby Heru » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:31 pm

Sorry Jim. I should have explained it in more detail. :oops:

You start off by placing the Fool in Kether and then work your way down the Tree following the regular sequence of the Sephiroth and Tarot cards. But you must place the Emperor in Daath. (Don't worry he's not staying there. :lol: )

Working down the Tree you should end up with Fortune in Malkuth. Then you work your way back up the Tree by placing Lust next to Fortune and then following the natural sequence back up the Tree until you end up placing the Universe in Kether next to the Fool.
Now after you have done all that swap the Emperor with the Star.

There are some similarities between the cards that are next to each other.
For example:

In Malkuth: Lust and Fortune both share a dividing line across the top fifth of the card.

In Yesod: The Hermit and the Hanged Man share the same triangular shape in the lower half of the card.

The Lovers and the Devil in Tiphareth are pretty obvious.

In Daath the Moon and the Star both share a horizontal dividing line in the lower quarter of the card. Possibly symbolic of the Veil of the Abyss?

I know I may be reading too much into what may just be coincidences. But the more I have looked at this pattern in the cards the more I am convinced that they were designed to layed out in this fashion. But the scheme is only complete when you swap the Emperor and the Star.
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Postby redd fezz » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:58 pm

(A friend asked me to post this... which will conveniently bring my post count back up to 333.)

Meditating on Key 17 The Star... I saw The Star in my mind's eye and it began to come to life.
The colors became very vibrant and the scene started to change in various ways. I realized I
could not see the woman and began to look, expecting her to pop up, but what happened
instead was a stream of thought that went like this:

Where is the woman? Who is she? The Star? No. The Goddess? No. Eve?
Maybe she is Eve, the Subconscious. Yes, she pours the water into the pool
(recording impressions of Self-Conscious into the Universal Memory)
and the pool pops out of the other vase creating the physical
reality of our 5 senses (note 5 streams pouring from vessel).
The red and white bands must represent desire and reason. The reversal of the
band colors must represent on the one hand reason feeding desire and
on the other hand desire feeding reason. This woman is in both worlds
and stands on water as well as earth. Yes she must be the subconscious.

But, the subconscious is not the Star... there is more to it... Tzaddi
means "fish hook" ... bait the hook to catch a fish... vav = hook,
listening to the interior Voice; nun = fish, the completion of a
goal... The advice for Tzaddi meditation is to picture a problem and
let the solution arise naturally by use of the "universal solvent"
which is the Mind... Tzaddi... Star... A Star is more than the
Subconscious! The Star would be the Superconscious or something.
The Star represents the POWER to Solve Problems or one who has the power.
This person would be a STAR! A King, master of the kingdom...
Star... Tzaddi... Tz... Tzar... Tsar... Czar... King... Emperor!

FLASH!

My eyes pop open to the realization that Crowley's Aiwaz said, "Tzaddi
is not the Star," which is what caused him to switch the Star and the
Emperor. Also note that in Paul Foster Case's "Book of Tokens"
the entry on Tzaddi says to compare paragraph 3 with the entire
meditation of Heh, The Emperor.


If you haven't already done as the Book of Tokens instructs, I highly
recommend it. It's nothing incredibly new or earth-shaking but for
me it has helped me to solidify the Tarot up to this point.

I now also understand what compelled Frater Achad to "reverse" the
entire Tree of Life. If you reverse the order of the BOTA or Golden Dawn paths
on the Tree of life, you will see that the Emperor and the Star switch places.
I guess Waite did something similar with 8 and 11. Then,
Crowley switched The Emperor and The Star.
Achad probably said, "Hey, the opposite paths must have some sort of relationship"
and just did the whole tree upside down. Although I'm not sure what he did with the reversed Tree,
I suspect he compared the upright to the reversed tree and looked for similar relationships as the Star and the Emperor have.

So, I'm not saying Crowley is correct or that "Aiwaz" is correct. I
think Aiwaz made the suggestion that "Tzaddi is not the Star" which makes perfect sense in the context I've presented.
Crowley took the suggestion too far. I think Tzaddi makes perfect sense on The Star key as it explains the type of meditation (fish hook), but the real "star" of the Star key is the active force being utilized: the Universal Solvent, the King of the Kingdom, The Emperor. Hadit. In the midst of all the water symbolism of the same key... (but, didn't you already Nuit?) Impressing the Will on the Waters. That is the message here. The switch is unnecessary and wrong, in my opinion.

Image
User avatar
redd fezz
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:25 pm
Location: ah, feels good be back home again

Postby redd fezz » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:05 pm

Just came back to eat my words.

If the Sun gets its energy from Sirius, the switch makes sense. The Emperor also looks nice down there across from The Sun, if the two are related (which it seems they are).
User avatar
redd fezz
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:25 pm
Location: ah, feels good be back home again

Postby Heru » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:32 pm

Is it possible that Crowley considered both the Star and the Emperor's old and new attributions to be both correct but in different ways? There is a footnote in chapter 4 of Magick in Theory and Practice where Crowley refers to the Emperor/Heh attribution as "exoteric". Although he doesn't say so himself I assume that Crowley thought the Star/Heh attribution was the "esoteric" correspondence. Could this possibly be the reason why Crowley seems to mix these two cards up in The Book of Thoth?
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Postby Edward Mason » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:57 pm

93,

One thing maybe worth looking at is that in the new Aeon, human consciousness is undergoing a shift. That is, our perspective(s) are moving to a different point of view.

Accordingly, what once seemed right and natural - the Star being Tzaddi as an example - ceases to be wholly appropriate any more. Which is not the same as it being 'wrong', any more than someone whose visible object of worship is Jesus Christ is 'worshiping wrong' per se.

If we're caught up in a right-wrong dichotomy, we're ignoring one of the primary tenets of Thelema anyway (making no difference between any one thing and any other thing, for thereby there cometh hurt). It's not a matter of settling on one side or other of divisive conceptions, but settling into the new perspective allowed and bestowed by the shift.

In this instance, the concepts around the Star are today seen less from a purely terrestrial or human viewpoint, and take on a galactic or cosmic aspect, wherein, to quote the 32 Paths for Path 15, the substance of creation is constitituted in pure darkness. At the same time, the powers of Aries are taking on a <i>functional </i> job of consummating and perfecting the nature of every existent being (to quote the text for path 28) That is, the concentrated fiery power of Aries is brought to bear earlier to bring about a shift in how we approach the work that's to come after the attainment of Netzach.

93 93/93,

Edward
User avatar
Edward Mason
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:56 am
Location: Amatlan de Quetzalcoatl

Postby Heru » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:29 pm

Edward Mason wrote:Accordingly, what once seemed right and natural - the Star being Tzaddi as an example - ceases to be wholly appropriate any more. Which is not the same as it being 'wrong', any more than someone whose visible object of worship is Jesus Christ is 'worshiping wrong' per se.

I think that hits the nail on the head, Edward. :) Although the Book of the Law declares the New Aeon correction to the attributions, it doesn't mean that the old ways have no value any more. The old attribution just takes on a new meaning, "exoteric", when viewed from a new aeon perspective.

If this is correct it clears up all the apparent confusion in the Book of Thoth. A New Aeon dispensation doesn't abolish the concepts of the Old Aeon, it simply places them in a new and wider perspective.
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Postby DavidH » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:09 pm

"Abrogate are all rituals, all ordeals, all words and signs."


SYLLABICATION: ab·ro·gate
TRANSITIVE VERB:Inflected forms: ab·ro·gat·ed, ab·ro·gat·ing, ab·ro·gates

To abolish, do away with, or annul, especially by authority.

ETYMOLOGY:Latin abrogre, abrogt- : ab-, away; see ab–1 + rogre, to ask; see reg- in Appendix I.

And Abolish:
1. To do away with; annul.
2. To destroy completely.

So, if it was destroyed completely or annuled, what is left to interpret? If a law for example is abrogated, it is gone and can't be interpreted in any way, no?
In LVX,
David

"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains."
Liber L - II, 9
93 93/93
User avatar
DavidH
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:16 am
Location: CA

Postby DavidH » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:11 pm

Now, I actually like your idea better, but does the text actually say that?
In LVX,
David

"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains."
Liber L - II, 9
93 93/93
User avatar
DavidH
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:16 am
Location: CA

Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:53 pm

Heru wrote:Is it possible that Crowley considered both the Star and the Emperor's old and new attributions to be both correct but in different ways? There is a footnote in chapter 4 of Magick in Theory and Practice where Crowley refers to the Emperor/Heh attribution as "exoteric". Although he doesn't say so himself I assume that Crowley thought the Star/Heh attribution was the "esoteric" correspondence. Could this possibly be the reason why Crowley seems to mix these two cards up in The Book of Thoth?

Anything is possible, of course.

But this one isn't likely. Crowley's writings need to be understood in terms of the time when they were written.

There's one era when he's clearly confused in the sense of "still working it out."

There's another era when he appears to have it very clearly worked out but, by his understanding of Liber L., he wasn't revealing it. (It says he was to reveal it to "the wise," which he took as meaning not to disclose it to just anyone.)

By the time of The Book of Thoth - at the end of his life - he had decided that the unwise wouldn't understand what he was saying anyway, so he might as well go ahead and say it. However, there are still some stumbles in the delivery.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Lost His Marbles
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:41 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Postby Heru » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:37 am

I'm still at the stage of trying to learn why the cards are where they are on the ToL. Given this, does full appreciation of the Emperor/Star switch hinge upon a good understanding of the original Golden Dawn scheme?

If you make even a small change to a fixed system without a full understanding of that system you won't be able to fully grasp the implications of any change made.
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:03 am

Heru wrote:I'm still at the stage of trying to learn why the cards are where they are on the ToL. Given this, does full appreciation of the Emperor/Star switch hinge upon a good understanding of the original Golden Dawn scheme?

No. :) Though the more depth of understanding you have, the better.

If you make even a small change to a fixed system without a full understanding of that system you won't be able to fully grasp the implications of any change made.

I never regarded this as a change. I don't think it was an evolution or a cosmic switch. I think it was an error that went undetected until it was set aright.

It might be easier for your to proceed by coming to understanding how Heh is The Star. That one is soooooooooo easy and self-evident from every possible angle, that it may be the place to start.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Lost His Marbles
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:41 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Postby Heru » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:49 am

Is the text of Liber Arcanorum and it's attribution to the seals of the Mercurial and Qlipphotic geniis effected by the Star/Emperor switch? Lines 4 and 17 contain elements that seem to be suggestive of both cards.
4. Now riseth Ra-Hoor-Khuit, and dominion is established in the Star of the Flame.

17.Transformed, the holy virgin appeared as a fluidic fire, making her beauty into a thunderbolt.

In his Tarot of Ceremonial Magick, Lon Milo DuQuette places the Mercurial and Qlipphotic seals of the letter Heh on the Star and those of the letter Tzaddi on the Emperor card. I assume from this that he considers line 4 of the text of Arcanorum to relate to the Star and line 17 to the Emperor. But isn't the mention of Ra-Hoor-Khuit in line 4 a little out of place with the Star? And vice versa the "holy virgin" and the "thunderbolt" with the Emperor? :?
there are many that swim, and find no boats.
User avatar
Heru
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 am
Location: On the outside looking in.

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:41 pm

Heru wrote:Is the text of Liber Arcanorum and it's attribution to the seals of the Mercurial and Qlipphotic geniis effected by the Star/Emperor switch? Lines 4 and 17 contain elements that seem to be suggestive of both cards.

That was received before Crowley made the switch - I've always questioned the Class A status of that particular work because it is clearly his intellectual assessment expressed in verse.

Remember what I said about evaluating his writings in terms of the time they were written and his point of view at the time.

Or, another p.o.v. which protects the Class A status: Notice that Liber Arcanorum is nly valid up to 7=4, that is, within the bounds of the Ruach. It is an intellectual, philosophical formulation that is explicitly said not to be valid within Supernal consciousness. (That's probably why it feels more like a Class B Document to me.) And, since the secret of Heh being The Star was only to be revealed to The Wise (Chokmah?)...
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Lost His Marbles
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:41 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Postby redd fezz » Thu May 24, 2007 3:59 pm

Wow-zers. After reading Lon Milo DuQuette's explanation of the switch in "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" today, I see that this really, really makes a lot of sense.

(( I'm not sure what "the original arrangement" of the trumps was, though. DuQuette mentions that the Golden Dawn swapped Strength and Adjustment's trump order (8 and 11) in order to get the zodiac and hebrew letters to line up properly... but, where did they get this original arrangement from? I thought there were many various orders of these cards with no real known "original" order. I presume based on this that the "original" order gave Strength #11 and Adjustment #8, but where did this original order come from? ))

Having swapped the correspondences, but keeping the original order puts a funny little twist in the zodiac belt... but, this twist is duplicated on the opposite side with the Tzaddi and Hé swap. Looking at the strip, it looks very, very correct to me. There are lots of reasons why I feel this way and many of them are spelled out in the book. But, some that are not: just looking at Hé, the window and the breath of life, leading from Chokmah to Tiphareth across from Zain, the will exerted over the opposites, leading from Binah to Tiphareth--and Lust overlapping that general area-- looks so right! Hé is a female letter coming from a male sephiroth and Zain is a male letter coming from a female sephiroth-- combine this with the dual sexual nature of Gemini, the phallic sword and the sex of Lust around the balanced center of the Tree-- the universal essence begetting and harmonizing.

Makes sense!

Also, this puts a hidden star behind the sun (Sirius?)-- the star that the "old aeon" used for meditation relating to the subconscious process of "the moon" and here then down at the bottom is the Emperor connecting the moon and Venus with his male energy of Aries... this makes a lot of sense considering the ruler impregnates his lunar subconscious with his desires.

It also seems pretty obvious why it took a while to figure it out and why it took a genius such as Crowley to do so!

I like it, I like it. What did I miss/screw up?
User avatar
redd fezz
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:25 pm
Location: ah, feels good be back home again

Next

Return to Qabbalah

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest