behind the Tree?

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behind the Tree?

Postby veritas_in_nox » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:31 pm

Toodling around the internet I stumbled across the webpage for the Ordo Templi Orientis Antiqua (basically Hermeticism plus 'Voudon'). I'm not terribly interested in working with the Loa, but the grade structure* struck me: the first ten grades correspond to Sephiroth, no surprise here. Then it gets a little odd [list edited for brevity]:
O.'.T.'.O.'.A.'. wrote:XI Templier Noir (Black Templar), oorresponding to KETHER-DAATH-CHOKMAH.
XII Adept Priesthood, corresponding to KETHER-DAATH-BINAH.
XIII Templier Rouge (Red Templar), corresponding to DAATH.
Pure Magic and Gnosticism, exploration on the esoteric world on the back of the Tree of Life.
XIV Reaux-Croix (Initiate), corresponding to Negative TIPHARETH.
Techniques of Vudu-Tantric magic, or the Afro-Atlantean logic which explores the back of the tree of life.
XV Reaux-Croix (Companion), corresponding to Negative YESOD.
XVI Reaux-Croix (Master), corresponding to Negative MALHUTH.

Back of the Tree of Life? Negative Sephiroth? Is this an excessively obscure way of referring to the Qliphoth or something else? Any and all help would be appreciated.

*original link here: http://www.otoa-lcn.org/en_stopnieotoa.php
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Re: behind the Tree?

Postby veritas_in_nox » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:48 pm

I just finished reading a text in the same tradition (but not by the same group) entitled The Spider and the Green Butterfly: Voudon Crossroads of Power. While its usefulness has been questioned on the internet it has a section regarding the back of the Tree which talks about the Loa climbing up the back of the Tree and down the front to meet with practitioners, and about the magician doing the exact opposite in his initiatory path- climbing up the tree and then back down into his body [in 'negative Malkuth'].
Does this help?
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Re: behind the Tree?

Postby Atzilut » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:56 am

One way to understand the concept of 'negative' Sephira or Klipot is simply to understand them in terms of 'egoistic' desire, namely that they are vessels or forms which attract and bind to anything that is the desire to receive for oneself. The non-negative sephira are generally those where this tendency to receive is supplemented with the ability to bestow(i.e. Light) The attempt to use negative sephira is usually nothing more than a profound misunderstanding of the role and function of these two divine forces...light and vessel. Since Man in his present state is regarded as living below the threshold of the Sephirot, he can be said to already dwell in the spheres of the klipot. There is no need to be initiated into them or seek them out-they surround you in everything that you and others do egoistically...our world. There is some variation amongst the kabbalistic schools of thought and individual kabbalists as to the precise nature of the Sephirot and the very complex relationships that obtain between them. A good grounding in basic Traditional Kabbalah will be very useful in helping to elucidate these often misunderstood concepts.
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Re: behind the Tree?

Postby atlantis » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:35 pm

I think it seems that Bertiaux does not have that interpretation of the Qliphoth, but rather something in line with Luria et al. At least that is what I have deducted from people I have met within the OTOA.

The idea of the highest aspect of the Qliphoth as "pre-dating" the Sephiroth.
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Re: behind the Tree?

Postby FrAAAAAM » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:46 pm

Hello,

You may want to explore the writings of Kenneth Grant in regards to the use of the "Other Side" of the Tree as likewise (or close enough) interpreted in Circles around Tau Michael.

However, in traditional Kabbalah the Tree has both a "Front" or "Face" as well as a "Back" or "Posterior". In fact all the Partzufim are so divided... this is also what determines the directional flow of the Celestial Influence and how and whether the Partzufim couple as well as at what level. You can see one example of the Face and Posterior of the Partzufim in Aryeh Kaplan's text on the Sefer Yetzirah. In this text there are some charts/diagrams labeled as the Partzufim of the Sefirot inclusive of Da'at. These diagrams of the Sefirotic Partzufim are taken from Emek Ha'Melekh. these same charts/diagrams were also included in Rosenroth's massive tome.

One should keep to mind that the Qliphot are also termed "The Other Side" (Sitra Achara) and the "Strangers" (or Achrim) and sometimes termed the "Exteriors".

I find it doubtful that Kenneth Grant had these dynamics in mind but they do have a relationship to very old Kabbalistic dynamics and schemae.

I will likely not receive a reply to my post as I'm having difficulty updating my email address.

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