616 vs 666

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616 vs 666

Postby Metzareph » Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:18 pm

93,
We've all heard/read the passage in Revelation 13:18 "It is the number of a man, and his number is six hundred threescore and six (King James Version)".
We all know the Sun-Tipharet association and the relation with the Magick Square of the Sun... etc. but in past year or so, there has been an attempt to "correct" the passage in Revelation to indicate that the 666 is in fact 616. My reaction has been of keen skepticism, but apparently the scientific community and the scholars think this is correct. I honestly don't think is right and I don't have anything to go but just the assestment of some scholars and the apparent fragment from the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament, dating to the Third century.
Ellen Aitken, a professor of early Christian history at McGill University, said the discovery appears to spell the end of 666 as the devil’s prime number. (ha!)
The reason I'm not buying this is because it can be just a translator's typo, one of many copies that were made by hand, and there's more to 666 than 616, but then again I don't have a copy of the fragments in Greek with the 666 or 616 to scientifically go one way or another. :)
Thoughts?
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:58 pm

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

There have been other threads about this on this forum.

One single variant manuscript has a different number than all other known manuscripts. This sort of thing happens all the time in old documents of this sort. There is no reason to believe that this one manuscript is more correct than all the others. It is more reasonable to believe that it has a transcription error.

One doesn't even need to add that Revelations also has an internal code based on words that enumerate to 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, and 888 - and that 666 falls in precisely the right place for that code. The logic in the previous paragraph is sufficient.

Please understand that the difference is between an Iota and a Xi - a single character. These are not characters easy to confuse. On the other hand, it is still a single character difference in one manuscript compared to dozens of others.
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Postby Metzareph » Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:36 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

There have been other threads about this on this forum.



I'm sorry! I missed the other threads...


Jim Eshelman wrote:One doesn't even need to add that Revelations also has an internal code based on words that enumerate to 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, and 888 - and that 666 falls in precisely the right place for that code. The logic in the previous paragraph is sufficient.


Wow! Code! Could you please elaborate on the other numbers? I mean, are they phrases in the text ... or names? I'm familiar with 888, 666, 777 and 333 (JesusChrist, Sun and Choronzon etc.) but I didn't know these numbers where purposely used in the text. That's news to me. I know that the common enumeration of 888, 666 and 333 comes from Hebrew, right, but his text is in Greek (?!)
I don't know what I'm asking...
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:49 am

Metzareph wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:One doesn't even need to add that Revelations also has an internal code based on words that enumerate to 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, and 888 - and that 666 falls in precisely the right place for that code. The logic in the previous paragraph is sufficient.

Wow! Code! Could you please elaborate on the other numbers? I mean, are they phrases in the text ... or names? I'm familiar with 888, 666, 777 and 333 (JesusChrist, Sun and Choronzon etc.) but I didn't know these numbers where purposely used in the text. That's news to me. I know that the common enumeration of 888, 666 and 333 comes from Hebrew, right, but his text is in Greek (?!)

The 333 you cite is totally Crowleyan. Unfortunately, this is a long development and I'd have to dig through my notes. I think you were at the talk I gave where I went through the Apocalypse analytically along the lines of Qabalistic and Raja Yoga / Kundalini Yoga analysis? I still hope to finish that full commentary one of these years.
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Postby Metzareph » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:49 pm

Thanks Jim. Yes! I was very fortunate in attending that lecture (it was amazing!) Maybe you'd like to have one like that next time here in NY ;)

hint hint!

93s
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Postby BlasphemousTruth » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:29 pm

616 = 2^3 x 7 x 11

which also translates as 8 x 77 or 7 x 88 or 56 x 11

It seems that 616 has a much more direct relationship to the mystical numerical system of Thelema than previously thought.

The difference between 666 and 616 is 50 (nun) I think this should be taken into consideration as well. I haven't drawn solid conclusions or strong enough ideas to posit a proper thesis yet, so I give you these mere musings and fragmented thoughts.

I'm sure it's enough information to aid each in drawing your own conclusions.
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