Decanates

Q&A and discussion on the Hermetic Qabbalah

Moderator: Moderators - Public

Decanates

Postby Ankh » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:30 pm

93 All,
There are two planetary orders that I am familiar with. The first is the Chaldean order. A.C. used this order for the Thoth deck. Then you have the elemental order that Paul Case used in his BOTA course work.
My question is this.

Why are they different?

This is what I know.
The Chaldean order follows the decent of the planets down the Tree of Life. Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, the Moon.

Aries: Mars, Sun, Venus.
Taurus: Mercury, Moon, Saturn.
Gemini: Jupiter, Mars, Sun.
Cancer: Venus, Mercury, Moon.
Leo: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars.
Virgo: Sun, Venus, Mercury.
Libra: Moon, Saturn, Jupiter.
Scorpio: Mars, Sun Venus.
Sagittarius: Mercury, Moon, Saturn.
Capricorn: Jupiter, Mars, Sun
Aquarius: Mercury, Moon, Saturn.
Pisces: Venus, Mercury, Moon.

The Elemental Order follows this pattern.

Aries: Aries/ Mars: Leo/ Sun: Sagittarius/Jupiter:
Taurus: Taurus/Venus: Virgo/Mercury: Capricorn/Saturn:
Gemini: Gemini/Mercury: Libra/Venus: Aquarius/Saturn:
Cancer: Cancer/Moon: Scorpio/Mars: Pisces/Jupiter:
Leo: Leo/Sun: Sagittarius/Jupiter: Aries/Mars:
Virgo: Virgo/Mercury: Capricorn/Saturn: Taurus/Venus:
Libra: Libra/Venus: Aquarius/Saturn: Gemini/Mercury:
Scorpio: Scorpio/Mars: Pisces/Jupiter: Cancer/Moon:
Sagittarius: Sagittarius/Jupiter: Aries/Mars: Leo/Sun:
Capricorn: Capricorn/Saturn: Taurus/Venus: Virgo/Mercury.
Aquarius: Aquarius/Saturn: Gemini/Mercury: Libra/Venus:
Pisces: Pisces/Jupiter: Cancer/Moon: Scorpio/Mars:

Why would one system be used over another?

Also, please forgive me if the orders are not exact. I am going from memory.
Last edited by Ankh on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Ankh
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:08 pm

Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:24 am

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

First, let me distinguish the listeral astrological use of this from the use of astrological symbols for other purposes such as Tarot: In every single large study that has been done of astrological factors in the last half century plus, when decanates have been examined there has been no significance found at all. Decanates are not an astrologically significant division.

However, their use as astrological symbols for other non-astrological purposes - such as Tarot - is important. It does appear that part of the root design of Tarot (lesser arcana) symbolism is based on this. I believe Case was quite wrong in attempting to insert the 20th Century astrological model - based on the the three signs of the same Element. The Chaldean model is the one that hits it.

Do a simple experiment: In each of the two systems, take the minor arcana cards which are associated with decanates ruled by Venus, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn. Look at the traditional meanings of the cards in a very simple way as "good" or "bad" - straightforward in the sense that luck, happiness, and pleasure are good, and hurt, loss, and difficulty are bad. Score how well each system does. I think you'll have your own answer.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com
"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Lost His Marbles
 
Posts: 9592
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:41 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Postby Ankh » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:53 am

93.

Thank you for your response Jim,

I personally like the Chaldean order over the Elemental order due to the fact that the Chaldean Order flows down the Tree of life.

The Chaldean Order also reflects the position in the Heavenly planets Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon; this sequence is balanced through out the Zodiacal year. The Elemental Order is not. The Chaldean Order also reflects their position in the Heavenly Spheres (Saturn in the outermost of the seven planets and Moon in the innermost). From a modern perspective, the order expresses the relative speed of the planets, from slowest to fastest.

The Chaldean Order is my preference, but I didn’t want to bias the forum with my personal opinion.

Jim Quote:
Do a simple experiment: In each of the two systems, take the minor arcana cards which are associated with decanates ruled by Venus, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn. Look at the traditional meanings of the cards in a very simple way as "good" or "bad" - straightforward in the sense that luck, happiness, and pleasure are good, and hurt, loss, and difficulty are bad. Score how well each system does. I think you'll have your own answer.

Will do.
User avatar
Ankh
Stone of Precious Water
Stone of Precious Water
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:08 pm


Return to Qabbalah

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron