archangels and sephiroth

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archangels and sephiroth

Postby poor+blind+misfit » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:50 am

Greetings all!

i was wondering about the nature of the relationship of the various archangels to the sephiroth. Can you work with a spcific sephira without working with the archangel assigned to it, and vice versa? Are the archangels guides to explore those sephiroth? Are they more? Less? Are they in essence the same as the sephiroth? Honestly I'm being lazy because I know I could go look this up... but any discussion would be appreciated.

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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:13 pm

poor+blind+misfit wrote:i was wondering about the nature of the relationship of the various archangels to the sephiroth. Can you work with a spcific sephira without working with the archangel assigned to it, and vice versa?

Well, yeah .... depending on what exactly you are trhying to do.

Are the archangels guides to explore those sephiroth?

They are the primary expressions of that Sephirah in Briah - which also means that they are the primary "messengers" translating the direct Divine force of that Sephirah to lower planes.
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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby poor+blind+misfit » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:27 pm

So would a neophyte be advised to invoke Sandalphon often? And the Zelator Gabriel? and so forth?.....

And why or why not?

Thank you for your time.

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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:39 pm

That wouldn't be a bad idea; but neither would it be a required one.

I could think of various arguments for and against. This one has to be left to the promptings and necessities of a specific aspirant.

(You can see the obvious arguement for, I think. One argument against would be that this practice could intensify the common problem of people feeling stuck, or embedded, in their present grade and not remembering to move on - see Wake World. But I stick with my answer above: Depends on the person.)
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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby gmugmble » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:51 am

A bit of a digression, but ... is it proper to speak of "invoking" or "evoking" an archangel? What about an angel?
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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:08 am

gmugmble wrote:A bit of a digression, but ... is it proper to speak of "invoking" or "evoking" an archangel? What about an angel?

One invokes ("calls in") something existing at a higher level than that at which we are functioning. One evokes ("calls out") something existing at a lower level. - I suppose one could say that we convoke ("speak with") something at a comparable level.

Most magicians approaching the work are awake / alive / functioning in Yetzirah, and not yet in Briah. Therefore, an Archangel is of a clearly higher plane and is invoked. Angels are less easy to pigeon-hole, but, for most, they are also at a higher level. (There's quite a range within Yetzirah, and a range most obvious to us since it's our own psychological neighborhood. By the time you drop below angels to other Yetziratic beings, such as Intelligences and Spirits, we are clearly in evocation territory.)

For an Adept, one who is awake in Briah, it may be more appropriate (depending on the level of a working) to say that one has convocation with Archangels and evokes Angels.
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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Atzilut » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:09 pm

I would recommend you read a good introduction to the structure of the worlds, such as 'The Beginning of Wisdom' translated by Amiram Markel and M T Wolkenfeld, followed by 'De'ah et HaShem' , The knowledge of G-d, written by Shimon Markel and edited by Amiram Markel. These are two of the best introductions to the structure of the worlds without which the concept of 'garment', angelic or otherwise, are liable to lead to error. These are free to download in PDF format at TrueKabbalah.com

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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby gmugmble » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:17 am

Thanks for the recommendation, Atzilut, but when I go to TrueKabbalah.com, I just find a curt lesson in web site design written by someone stuck in the 1990s.
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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Atzilut » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:25 am

Ah sorry about that. Just checked links so try this. Otherwise I can email the docs concerned :)

http://www.truekabbalah.com/documents.php

Best Wishes

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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby poor+blind+misfit » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:53 pm

Thanks for the talk everyone, and the reference materials. I'm finally going to have time to sit down with the Wake World tonight so hopefully it'll shed light on my thinking here.

I have another question in response to Jim.

One invokes ("calls in") something existing at a higher level than that at which we are functioning. One evokes ("calls out") something existing at a lower level.

Does this mean that its impossible to invoke (because, perhaps, its already "in") something existing at a lower level, or is it a practical recommendation not to do so? I read somewhere about magicians invoking Goetic demons and other earth type spirits, thats why I'm asking.

Thanks.

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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:58 pm

poor+blind+misfit wrote:
One invokes ("calls in") something existing at a higher level than that at which we are functioning. One evokes ("calls out") something existing at a lower level.

Does this mean that its impossible to invoke (because, perhaps, its already "in") something existing at a lower level, or is it a practical recommendation not to do so? I read somewhere about magicians invoking Goetic demons and other earth type spirits, thats why I'm asking.

It's a mix of a couple of things.

First of all, it's probably not a possibility at all.

However, what IS possible is employing the methods AS IF you were invoking, and this has some real dangers - because in invocation you "lose yourself" to the invoked power. Even if there isn't an overtly subservient element in the ceremnony of doing so, the process of invocation makes the magician's ego subservient to the invoked being or power.

Now... do you really want to approach interaction with a Goetic demon in this particular way? :shock:

Furthermore, by approaching it as invocation, you're specifically NOT approaching it with the distinctive protections that are normal to evocations. (See, for example, 776 1/2, sample ritual #8 for a discussion of that.) This, too, puts you at significant risk.
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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby gmugmble » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:57 am

poor+blind+misfit wrote:I read somewhere about magicians invoking Goetic demons and other earth type spirits

The distinction we're making here between "invoking" a higher being and "evoking" a lower one is an artificial nicety suggested by the words' etymology: in+voke means call in, e+voke means call out. But historically, "invoke" has been used in both senses, and when you read of people invoking demons, it probably just means that they conjured or summoned them.
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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:00 am

Good point.

It wasn't the spirits that were being invoked. Divine forces were being invoked in order to compel the appearance of the spirits.
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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Atzilut » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:43 am

It wasn't the spirits that were being invoked. Divine forces were being invoked in order to compel the appearance of the spirits.

Yes, hence it is useful to know how those divine forces were structured according to the teachings of the Kabbalists.
Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the majority of works on magic and quabalah are incomplete and inaccurate,
and therefore are not effective in the way they are thought to be. This is because nearly all work written in the
western esoteric tradition fails to understand and apply the inner significance of idolatry, particularly with reference to the S'firot.

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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Bereshith » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:48 am

Atzilut wrote:
This is because nearly all work written in the
western esoteric tradition fails to understand and apply the inner significance of idolatry, particularly with reference to the S'firot.

Atzilut


Would you care to elaborate?
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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Atzilut » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:54 am

Yes I would be happy to elaborate, and will post reply as soon as time permits.


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Re: archangels and sephiroth

Postby Atzilut » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:46 am

The S'firot(Light) along with any 'garment' it is connected to was never intended to be an object of study separate from the context in which it arose, namely an instrument in the government of the worlds, under the rulership of the Divine. One of the problems is that many would be magicians, instead of realising that the invoking of the Divine force is a prerequisite to summoning a spirit to appearance, tend to rush past this and focus on what they think is more interesting, namely the appearance of the spirit. Now this is idolatry, but it isn't simply a matter of obeying the Orthodox Jewish ruling concerning the mitzvot. In the deepest sense, it is impossible not to be involved in idolatry at some level. The goal is to understand this and move closer to the Divine. The names and images of these demons, spirits etc are worthless for reasons that make sense to anyone who understands the nature of the texts.

Those traditional Kabbalists who spent more time with these systems understand the dangers...mistaking something for which it is not. The most obvious example is the belief that you can know something in its essence. The faculty of imagination is the biggest stumbling block further along the path in this respect. Another example is believing that there is another power in the world, namely Klipot(shells), or that by one's own authority one achieves a particular end. The Quabalah of Crowley, Blavatsky, Mathers et al, was linked to a far broader program of spiritual correspondences and religious synthesis, to have allowed the deepest aspects of Kabbalah to come out. Indeed, it is only in the last few years that many translations and writings have become available. However, the fact remains that the majority of western students, without any real knowledge of Kabbalah, Hebrew and Torah, are attempting to use a system that simply is defeating the very purpose for which it was intended, originally. I am not speaking purely theoretically either. Even books of Quabalah that address some of the more historical aspects of Kabbalah, such as J Bonner's 'Quabalah, a magical primer' fall short of providing any real understanding of the four worlds etc. They simply repeat a list of correspondences that has absolutely nothing to do with the relationships that the S'firot express in terms of Man's purpose.
The Inner significance of idolatry focuses on the subtle awareness of the individual as he/she rises and falls in accordance with the Ladder. These energies reveal the method by which one is concealed from the Light of G-d, and therefore one is forced to relinquish that state for another. These are the demons and spirits that 'conceal' or garb the S'firot. They do not require any other summoning, other than the left line which presents itself day to day
in every thought and emotion that separates you from your 'neighbour', friend, humanity. Anything, that appears to sustain this separation, although having a divine function, is idolatry and the path to correction.
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