Determining where decisions are made

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Determining where decisions are made

Postby Bereshith » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:21 am

This comes from another thread: Truth
AvshalomBinyamin wrote:
RobertAllen wrote:It's the impulse behind the choice that changes, grows, is located at various times in the nephesh, the ruach, or the neshama. Because, if I am at all anxious about needing to be right, needing to be the one who knows the truth, and especially about needing others to accept my ideas on truth, it doesn't matter much what I believe or promote.

This is a real gem I think. The place from which we make our decisions is very important.

Said another way: the "thou" in "Do what thou wilt" matters a great deal. :)


How does one determine the place from which we make our decisions? [not a trick question]
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Takamba » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:37 am

Actually that's a very interesting question. One I've been pondering since I saw this silly new age thing on YouTube this morning. Let me give you a couple examples. One time many years ago I was minding my own business when suddenly I found out I was surrounded and part of a brawl. It was totally unexpected when the mob flashed and a fist headed for my nose. I do not know martial arts but I had been practicing Tai Chi for several years and suddenly my body went into fast forward and the Tai Chi movements it knew became a most surprising form of self defense. I was unscathed in the very short battle. I attribute that to Nephesh if not lower. If I think upon an issue, weighing the factors and adding values to things, I'd call that Rauch consciousness. Above that there are times I just know something, like when I make a playlist for a friend and share it with her and she describes its utter perfection to her current time. I'm not thinking this, I'm just sensing a "I know this belongs." Also when I just know something needs to be done, or I need to be somewhere but I don't have any answer why, and suddenly I find exactly what I was looking for all along. I imagine this is like the consciousness of Neshama.
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:04 pm

I could read your question as
"How does one know which place we are make our decisions from?" or
"How does one choose which place from which we make our decisions?"

For the first question, I agree with Takamba. To oversimplify: Nephesh is instinct, Ruach is rational thought, Neshamah is higher intuition.

I've noticed that Ruach does well working on day-to-day decisions, but once those decisions get bigger and more important, Ruach doesn't do so well. I overthink. I spin in circles. I have anxiety, fears, doubt. I believe this means that I've reached the limits of Ruach, and am now trying to use the Ruach to do something it is not really capable of. I've learned to step back from this Ruach-based process any time this starts happening.

Big decisions especially need to be made from a place of integrity (wholeness). This means that all parts of me, including unconscious wishes, need to be brought together, so that I can make a united decision. When that happens (which is still uncommon for me, but less and less so over time, I imagine) there's a sense of calm and completeness, and I just know what to do. Not in quite the same way as instinct (which feels less aware and more automatic), but with that same level of sureness.

I think we've all experienced moments of that, where it's as if an invisible hand is guiding things, and we act and watch with perfect clarity, and our thought processes run in the background as an observer instead of center stage.

If I'm off base, someone else with more experience can chime in.
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby RobertAllen » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:25 pm

Aegis wrote:How does one determine the place from which we make our decisions? [not a trick question]


Know Thyself?

It's a lot harder to lie to oneself about ones motives and such when one is thoroughly familiar with how and what one tends to think.

Watch, keep notes, collect the observations of disinterested, outside observers...
...veil not your vices in virtuous words...

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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Bereshith » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:33 pm

Okay, I see. So if it's in the moment, greatest probability is Nephesh. Thanks, Takamba, for the example where the Nephesh was trained and responded with good consequences, and Av, for the play by play. Helpful.

I think I really needed to be able to have this conception: "Yes, I responded from my Nephesh, and the rest of me affirms that decision."

Follow up. Sometimes I make a decision to say something or write something. There's a fierce debate that happens very quickly - I guess Nephesh vs Ruach.

There's an emotion... It's like... Whatever is hindering you from freedom of action at this instance is WORTHLESS and WORTHY of LOSS if it stands in your way! NOW GO! NOW DO! NOW!

But then, as I begin to speak or even to type, there's like a... It's like I'm almost about to faint, and then I gather myself. It may happen again. And then I gather myself, and then... you know... I ****in' write whatever is burning a hole. I don't really understand it.

That's usually the kind of thing that I "pay for" later by having to think, and think, and think, and interrogate myself, and face all my usual monsters as they parade by, begging for an inch, a crack, a chink.

I'm alive so far. But there've been nights I made my peace. Weeks where my chest grew tight as I knew others were reading my words - as I can't tell how much I'm intuiting responses or creating them in my mind. That's my fight.

I don't think anybody realizes that's what's on the other end of all my supposed "characters." But it is.

This is me trying to be more open and less weird.

Does it work at all? Maybe don't answer that.

Oh, look at me. It's 3:33. Again.

Sigh. Since high school.
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:45 pm

III,59 : As brothers fight ye!

Jung wrote:But if we understand anything of the unconscious, we know that it cannot be swallowed. We also know that it is dangerous to suppress it, because the unconscious is life and this life turns against us if suppressed, as happens in neurosis. Conscious and unconscious do not make a whole when one of them is suppressed and injured by the other. If they must contend, at least let it be a fair fight with equal rights on both sides. Both are aspects of life. Consciousness should defend its reason and protect itself, and the chaotic life of the unconscious should be given the chance of having its way too - as much of it as we can stand. This means open conflict and open collaboration at once. That, evidently, is the way human life should be.
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:55 pm

Ever since our members-only spring seminar, I've been thinking that a half-day presentation I did on New Aeon Cognition should be put into some form I can circulate to general public. This thread reminds me to maybe think more often about doing that.

BTW I've abbreviated New Aeon Cognition as NAC - and the slogan I managed to get people repeating was, "Get the NAC!"
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:58 pm

Jim you can just send me the documents, and I'll make sure to edit out anything proprietary. :twisted:
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:02 pm

Thanks, I knew I could count on you :lol:

The single biggest thing is the nearly 100 MB PowerPoint with illustrations. The second biggest is filling in things that I didn't have in the slides and delivered verbally along with the slides. Overall, the program just has to be retargetted for a more general audience.
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Bereshith » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:05 pm

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:
III,59 : As brothers fight ye!

Jung wrote:But if we understand anything of the unconscious, we know that it cannot be swallowed. We also know that it is dangerous to suppress it, because the unconscious is life and this life turns against us if suppressed, as happens in neurosis. Conscious and unconscious do not make a whole when one of them is suppressed and injured by the other. If they must contend, at least let it be a fair fight with equal rights on both sides. Both are aspects of life. Consciousness should defend its reason and protect itself, and the chaotic life of the unconscious should be given the chance of having its way too - as much of it as we can stand. This means open conflict and open collaboration at once. That, evidently, is the way human life should be.


:shock:
Thank you, Av and Doktorvater Jung.
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Takamba » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:18 pm

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:
Jung wrote:Conscious and unconscious do not make a whole when one of them is suppressed and injured by the other.


Hahaha. When I first read this here, I accidently read "...and injured by the father." and thought "No! Noooo! Obi Wan, why didn't you tell me???"

:lol:
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Re: Determining where decisions are made

Postby Corvinae » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:39 pm

Hanging on the wall in my kitchen just above my dinning table is a poster of some quotes from Siddhartha....

I often find my eye resting on one in particular...

"In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. "

I will personally say that I use my emotions like a barometer, good feelings are usually in alignment with truth. Negative feelings. Not just anger usually indicate unbalanced, dis harmonious, or distorted perception.




Aegis wrote:This comes from another thread: Truth
AvshalomBinyamin wrote:
RobertAllen wrote:It's the impulse behind the choice that changes, grows, is located at various times in the nephesh, the ruach, or the neshama. Because, if I am at all anxious about needing to be right, needing to be the one who knows the truth, and especially about needing others to accept my ideas on truth, it doesn't matter much what I believe or promote.

This is a real gem I think. The place from which we make our decisions is very important.

Said another way: the "thou" in "Do what thou wilt" matters a great deal. :)


How does one determine the place from which we make our decisions? [not a trick question]
Love is the Law.
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