Tarot

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Tarot

Postby SerpentSeed123 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:19 pm

I received my Thoth Tarot deck [I'll be getting one of the books early next week] today and decided to do a couple readings for myself. I think I've got the point as to what they mean and I've wrote it all down in a journal, but any help from someone on here with more experience would be darn helpful! :)

First reading I did was a Past, Present and Future three-card spread, and it went as follows:

Past: Valour
Present: The Knight of Wands
Future: The Hermit

Now, my past, especially last year, was quite hard. I had broken friendships which led to oppositions, and hardships so Valour was pretty accurate from what I can tell. The Knight of Wands is a bit harder however; one description which I found on the internet indicates a move or an important new venture which would fit because I'm moving to a new area in a couple of weeks. The Hermit shocked me ... I do prefer solitude, but I also enjoy company.

[I wrote more down in my journal, but any help on this interpretation would help]

Finally, I did another three-card spread in which I asked: What do I most need to know about my love life?

It went as follows:

1. The Lovers
2. Virtue
3. Futility

I can tell you, the first card shocked me, with it's stunning accuracy as to the question I asked and I can only take that meaning I'll find someone in the near future? However, the 7 of Swords messed it up.

Help ... anyone ? :lol:
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Re: Tarot

Postby Corvinae » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:32 pm

Have you read through this part of the forum?

viewforum.php?f=89
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Re: Tarot

Postby SerpentSeed123 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:40 pm

I had a look earlier, but it looked a little vague for me. I'll be getting "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" as soon as I can. Maybe that will shed some light. :?
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Re: Tarot

Postby Bereshith » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:01 pm

Finally, I did another three-card spread in which I asked: What do I most need to know about my love life?

It went as follows:

1. The Lovers
2. Virtue
3. Futility

I can tell you, the first card shocked me, with it's stunning accuracy as to the question I asked and I can only take that meaning I'll find someone in the near future? However, the 7 of Swords messed it up.

Help ... anyone ?

I'm wondering if you had specific things in mind for each of the three cards. For instance, in the first drawing, you said the three cards represented, "past, present, and future." What does each card represent in the second drawing?

If it is the same, then... take it for what it's worth. It's not wrong or screwed up just because the final card seems negative. A lot of relationships go that way. Me... I stopped asking about the future. Too frustrating.... :wink: I prefer to ask only about the now. I feel like I have more control over the now.

If, on the other hand, you weren't clear in your head about it, you could either scrap the reading and do it again at another time with more explicit expectations, or you attempt to read all three cards together.

"What do I most need to know about my love life?"

If you take the three cards together, like three facets of the same gem, then the reading could be seen as telling you about three facets of your love-life as a whole. Just because the final card seems negative doesn't mean... lol... it doesn't mean that it isn't really representative of a facet of your love-life.

Sorry, it had to be said... I find the cards can be brutally honest with me as well.

So, you ponder how they could all be true at the same time. If there's stuff you don't like... well, that's still an important part of the self-examination and attempts at life-improvement.

No?
Last edited by Bereshith on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tarot

Postby SerpentSeed123 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:07 pm

Thanks Bereshith. During the second reading, aside asking the question, I had no set goal and intended to read it like a story, much like your 'facet' analogy. Should of seen my face light up when I got The Lovers ... should of seen it drop when I got Futility ... :wink:
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Re: Tarot

Postby Bereshith » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:14 pm

Try to look further into the card meanings than just the title.

For instance, Futility doesn't mean "pointless to try for love." But it may mean that in your love-life, you may tend to give up on people or relationships too easily, and this could be a major factor in how things tend to go for you - along with the meanings of the other cards. That's one way to interpret it at least, but be sure to read below.

I'd encourage you to look around for various meanings of those cards and sit with it for a day - if you're serious about it - and see what comes to you.

-------------------

Here's something from the forum tarot study:

FUTILITY
(Previously called, “Unstable Effort.”)
Seven of Swords

Meditation Pattern: Place Atu II, The Priestess, and Atu XVII, The Star, side-by-side, with the 6 of Swords above them.

Traditional Description: Two sets of three swords each, extended from opposite sides of the figure. A seventh sword reaches upward through their center. The points of all the swords just touch each other, the central sword not altogether dividing them. The rose of the previous symbols of this suit twines its stem about the blade of the central sword, its blossom opening fully near the tip thereof, as if the victory were at its disposal. Symbols of Luna and Aquarius above and below.

Netzach of Air: Calculating, clever, adaptable; or conniving, deceitful, and unreliable. In character, untrustworthy. Flight, departure, avoidance, refusal or failure at confrontation.

Luna/Aquarius: Loss of energy, diffusion, uncertainty, doubt, vacillation, unstable effort. Unreliable, mentally distractible. Incapable of sustained effort. Yielding when victory is within grasp, as if the last reserves of strength were used up. Inclination to lose when on the threshold of winning, through not continuing the effort. Partial success at best. Love of abundance, fascinated by display; given to complaints, affronts, and insolences, and to spy upon others. Inclined to betray confidences, not always intentionally but through inattentiveness or weakness.

Netzach/Venus + Luna: Passivity, emotional, desire for comfort, moodiness, shyness, easily influenced by others, good intentions but unrealistic assessment. If well-dignified, may add tenderness, emotional expressiveness, affection, grace; but the quality of the suit of Swords seriously impedes these more desirable, tender, and feeling aspects of Venus and the Moon.
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Re: Tarot

Postby SerpentSeed123 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:23 pm

Again, thank-you. I've been going through various meanings and interpretations tonight; your interpretation of futility speaks to me more then any of them [in regards to this specific subject]
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Re: Tarot

Postby Bereshith » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:27 pm

That interpretative material comes from Liber Theta, which some of us have been studying on the forum.

http://www.thelema.org/publications/books/LiberT.pdf
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Re: Tarot

Postby SerpentSeed123 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:31 pm

I'll check it out :)
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Re: Tarot

Postby Bereshith » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:50 pm

SerpentSeed123 wrote:I'll check it out :)


LOL...!

You'd better! It's the good stuff.

You may thank your forum host for both writing it and providing it for free.
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Re: Tarot

Postby SerpentSeed123 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:54 pm

Thanks Jim ... wherever you are! :wink:
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Re: Tarot

Postby Uni_Verse » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:04 pm

You showed valor, and fought valiantly through the trouble of yester year

Now, Fire of Fire, you stand at a new beginning - ready to charge forth and create! Spread thy order!

In the future, you shall hold the lantern up to what you have done to see if anything has really changed (a period of reflection)
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Re: Tarot

Postby SerpentSeed123 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:29 am

Uni_Verse wrote:You showed valor, and fought valiantly through the trouble of yester year

Now, Fire of Fire, you stand at a new beginning - ready to charge forth and create! Spread thy order!

In the future, you shall hold the lantern up to what you have done to see if anything has really changed (a period of reflection)


Thankyou! It's making much more sense to me now! :D
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Re: Tarot

Postby Uni_Verse » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:44 am

I thought to note that the Hermit card does not all ways mean withdrawing from the world per say.

It can some times manifest as a turning of ones awareness to the inner world.

Where one might begin concentrating on internal reactions to external occurrences (such as interactions with a friend or group of people).
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To seeD the Way
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WE experience:
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Re: Tarot

Postby Al-Shariyf » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:03 am

I'll be getting "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" as soon as I can. Maybe that will shed some light

That's a great primer if you are brand new to the Thoth Tarot. However, if you would like to take a more integrative approach to studying the Tarot I highly recommend this:

http://www.thelema.org/publications/books/LiberT.pdf

Not only is it intellectually satisfying but it will give you a very practical and hands-on approach to weaving the Tarot into your psyche. When you are ready for that ofcourse :wink:
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Re: Tarot

Postby Surgo » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:26 am

Al-Shariyf wrote:
I'll be getting "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" as soon as I can. Maybe that will shed some light

That's a great primer if you are brand new to the Thoth Tarot.

Sorry, I just can't agree with you here. It's an awful piece and anyone claiming otherwise should go and read the Book of Thoth, which is actually not very hard. Demanding, yes, but not hard, and it yields an infinite amount of knowledge more than Lon's book.

I can only say that it's a (pretty alright/mediocre) 101 as far as Tarot basics go. It doesn't bring anything new to the game, and it leaves the majority (over 90%) of the Book of Thoth out, which, in my opinion as an avid Thoth student is quite an awful move.
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Re: Tarot

Postby Al-Shariyf » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:00 pm

Sorry, I just can't agree with you here. It's an awful piece and anyone claiming otherwise should go and read the Book of Thoth, which is actually not very hard. Demanding, yes, but not hard, and it yields an infinite amount of knowledge more than Lon's book.


We can agree to disagree. When I first started out, I couldn't understand Crowley for (****). I picked up the Book of Thoth and Lon's book the same day I got my deck. I didn't read the BoT for months. Lon's book was perfect for me at that particular time in my develpoment. I don't know where SerpentSeed is but Lon's book may be what they need for where they are at the moment.
"To advance—that means Work. Patient, exhausting, thankless, often bewildering Work. Dear sister, if you would but Work! Work blindly, foolishly, misguidedly, it doesn’t matter in the end: Work in itself has absolute virtue." -Magick Without Tears
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Re: Tarot

Postby Surgo » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:26 am

I'll be perfectly honest with you: the Little White Book that comes with the deck covers about the same amount of information as Lon's book does, with exception of the Rosy Cross formula, the Vesica piscis, the color scales, and the astrological attributions. All of which can just be looked up from the internet or 777, as they're quite simple to comprehend. And they're on the cards anyway, so you don't really need a diagram if you're just divining.

Plus, if the OP is serious, he'd dive right into the matter, instead of dabbling around.
Furthermore:
http://www.bookdepository.com/Understan ... 1578632763
350 pages, "Authoritative", "everything you need to know to get the most out of using the Thoth deck."
I feel sick when I see people buying this book. Actually, let me cite you something from the book, just to show you how bad it is, the fragment is about Atu V - The Hierophant:
The hexagram can be seen enclosing the whole body of the Hierophant.

If you've ever seen the card, you know straight away that this is plain bullpucky. He's not even trying here, and the rest of the books is just as shallow compared to TBOT, which, needless to say, has its flaws, but is the ultimate compendium on the deck nonetheless, provided that one really does study it, instead of reading it once and leaving it be.

I hope I made my point clear here.
Have a good day.
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Re: Tarot

Postby Bereshith » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:40 am

If you've ever seen the card, you know straight away that this is plain bullpucky.

Ehhhhh.... I think maybe you're missing something... You've made a hard, absolute interpretation of the pentagram that seems to me to be intentionally stretched and distorted - I think to suggest a hexagram.

viewtopic.php?f=89&t=8345

See how the scepter that the High Priestess is holding continues the tip of the internal pentagram downward to the bottom of the Atu? To me, the distortion and the continued point of the scepter seems artisticaly to suggest the hexagram that the author is talking about. That, along with the fact that the High Priestess (associated with the Moon) stands and holds her scepter at the point that would be normally be held by the Moon in the planetary hexagram seems to me to confirm this symbolism. To me, it suggests some combination of the 5 and the 6, or some transition from the 5 to the 6, or vice versa, expressed by the imagery that is worthy of meditation.

It takes a while for the mind to be made pliable enough to really understand the symbolism of the tarot. Everybody's got to start somewhere. I think it's written simply, but not ignorantly as you accuse.

As for me, I've found Mr. Duquette's work to be invaluable - especially that work most hated by the "serious-minded" occultist - The Chicken Qabalah. Bock! Bock! Bock! :wink:
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Re: Tarot

Postby Surgo » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:52 am

Well, I can't see a hexagram here, regardless of how I bend my mind.
Besides, the inner pentagrams wouldn't fit if it was a hexagram.
Also, an important thing to keep in mind is that the journey always goes inwards, which the three pentagrams underline here.
I have found that the hebrew letter/ atu number attributions work best alone, in this case giving the 5=6 formula, instead of pushing it into the image when it's obviously not there.

Bottom line: there is no hexagram on the card, period.
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Re: Tarot

Postby Bereshith » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:02 am

Perhaps not, but the pentagrams are irregular - even to the point of distorting the larger pentagram to include a downward-pointing, precisely equillateral triangle with 60 degree angles...

As the only precisely angled pentagram on the Atu is in the very center, with the rest stretched seemingly to achieve the construction of the precisely equilateral, downward-pointing triangle (which also just happens to be artistically extended in the proper direction with the proper planetary hexagram symbolism), I think perhaps you are missing the artist's intent.

I'm just sayin'... But that's probably all I'm sayin'.

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Re: Tarot

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:19 am

Surgo wrote:Well, I can't see a hexagram here, regardless of how I bend my mind.

I'm puzzled... it isn't that difficult. It is clearly a hexagram (thoough, admittedly, the lower point is more implied than stated... much like instruction from The Hierophant).

The think I think you are missing is that it isn't the number of points, but other things like the number of degrees in each angle. Those are not at all 72° angles (as they would be with a pentagram. They are very close to 60° angles (as they are in a hexagram).

Besides, the inner pentagrams wouldn't fit if it was a hexagram.

On the contrary: An important key to understanding The Hierophant is the coexistence of the 5 and the 6. (It's even in the basic numeric patterns of the card: Atu 5, letter value 6 - as you later noted.)

Bottom line: there is no hexagram on the card, period.

You're quite funny :lol: The geometry is emphatically that of a hexagram.
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Re: Tarot

Postby Al-Shariyf » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:22 am

Bock! Bock! Bock!

I literally lost it at my desk just now. Hilarious. Also, very enlightening. That Goddamn distorted hexagram frustrates me so much but your explanation shed light on things that were previously in the dark for me. Cheers.
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Re: Tarot

Postby Surgo » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:56 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Surgo wrote:Well, I can't see a hexagram here, regardless of how I bend my mind.

I'm puzzled... it isn't that difficult. It is clearly a hexagram (thoough, admittedly, the lower point is more implied than stated... much like instruction from The Hierophant).

Verily. Up to the point that I seem entirely blind to it.

Jim Eshelman wrote:The think I think you are missing is that it isn't the number of points, but other things like the number of degrees in each angle. Those are not at all 72° angles (as they would be with a pentagram. They are very close to 60° angles (as they are in a hexagram).

Can be, but we're talking about penta and hexa grams, which are about the number of lines, not the angles, as shown by the large pentagram encompassing the figure of the Hierophant.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Besides, the inner pentagrams wouldn't fit if it was a hexagram.

On the contrary: An important key to understanding The Hierophant is the coexistence of the 5 and the 6. (It's even in the basic numeric patterns of the card: Atu 5, letter value 6 - as you later noted.)

Agreed, however that is a pattern that follows throughout the cards, and I have mostly noticed it between the card numbers and hebrew letters, rarely finding them in the illustrations. A very prominent example is The Emperor, IV/90 => square, or tetrahedron.

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Bottom line: there is no hexagram on the card, period.

You're quite funny :lol: The geometry is emphatically that of a hexagram.

Not so. There is a descending triangle, agreed, but for all I know (and that's not very much) it's mostly about attainment (Adeptus Minor) and descent back into matter from there. But hey, what do I know? I'm not even close to being an adept yet.
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Re: Tarot

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:16 pm

I would agree that it is a pentagram (the two pairs of lines at the bottom of the card will meet in the two legs of the pentagram). But I would also agree that the way it's stretched clearly implies a hexagram. The downward triangle is equilateral, as it would be for a hexagram, and if you gaze at the card at arms length, the gestalt impression is of a hexagram with an unfinished bottom.
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