There! is no God

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There! is no God

Postby Hego » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:30 am

93s everyone!!
I'm quoting a passage in the Cry of the 5th Aethry from the Vision and the Voice:

The Angel prompts me to whisper: “There is no god.” So they let me pass, and though there was
indeed nothing visible therein, yet there was a very strange atmosphere, which I could not understand.
.....
But they have a different sense. I had taken them to be a denial of the existence of God, but the man who says
them to me evidently means nothing of the sort: What he does mean I cannot tell at all. He slightly emphasized the word “there.”


"There" is no God. What does he mean by that? Is there a place in the universe where the omnipresent does not show his presence? Or am I missing some hidden meaning here?

Thanks in advance.
I love you all!!!
"Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many fons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan, and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?"
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Corvinae » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:50 am

There is a phrase

As above
So below
As within
So without

And another

Know Thy Self

Look with in for your answer. It is there somewhere.
Or not;)
Love is the Law.
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Hego » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:31 pm

Woe to me cause I'm still not getting it. Why am I not getting it?

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"Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many fons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan, and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?"
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Corvinae » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:34 pm

I dont know.
Maybe because you gave up looking after 12 hours and asked for the answer....instead of looking more?
Some things take time
Some things you have to figure out on your own.
If you earnestly want to know...then you have to do your own work.
Love is the Law.
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Hego » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:10 pm

Corvinae wrote:Maybe because you gave up looking after 12 hours and asked for the answer....instead of looking more?
Some things take time
Some things you have to figure out on your own.
If you earnestly want to know...then you have to do your own work.


What should I look for? Which books should I read? Should I meditate or read once again the vision and the voice? That is not a helpful answer. I don't have a work to do. I simply wish to hear other point of views.
"Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many fons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan, and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?"
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Takamba » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:59 pm

Hego wrote:
Corvinae wrote:Maybe because you gave up looking after 12 hours and asked for the answer....instead of looking more?
Some things take time
Some things you have to figure out on your own.
If you earnestly want to know...then you have to do your own work.


What should I look for? Which books should I read? Should I meditate or read once again the vision and the voice? That is not a helpful answer. I don't have a work to do. I simply wish to hear other point of views.


Let's hear yours. Where are you at with it all yourself? There are so many things available to the motivated on Amazon alone.

Read all. Do all. Record all (for your sanity at the least and for later meditation on your progress).

Perhaps it's just as simple as saying where a "there" can be pointed out, omni-anything ceases to be possible. There (like the noun) is (equals) no God (a thing without limits).

Just maybe all the exercises, memorizations, and writings are meant to give you the ability of mind/spirit/soul to manage these contortions on your own some day. To just spoon feed you my ideas is not to theach you how to comport your own. There is no Learning.
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Hego » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:29 am

Takamba wrote:Let's hear yours. Where are you at with it all yourself? There are so many things available to the motivated on Amazon alone.


I'm reading the list given for people who wants to be Probationers, so far I've read the Equinox 1-10, Knox Om Pax, Doctrine and Ritual of Transcendental Magic and Liber LXV. I've got the entire list and am currently on Liber 7. I'm reading my favorite passages from Liber LXV and Liber al vel Legis on a daily basis.

Where am I at with it myself? Honestly I don't know. I feel like I'm missing the most important things while I read those, example being the box of lofty thoughts in my other post.

My thoughts on "There! is no God" are numerous though. My first thought was in the aethry where choronzon lies there is no god. It's a stupid assumption maybe but in the Key of Mysteries by Levi he was saying God is order and Devil is disorder. And in the Abyss choronzon is constantly destroying, dispersing, creating disorder that there could be no God since everything is disorder. I don't understand the concept of Abyss entirely but it is a thought.

Then I was thinking the word "There" is only a means for us human beings, who need point of reference in every motion, to refer a location. But there is no location actually for God since everything in the Universe is a part of God and just using a point of reference as your mind and referring to someplace where God exists is meaningless. Stating "there is god" or "there is no god" is simply excluding your being from the God. But infinity minus one is still infinity so my point of view regarding the existing of infinity is null and void. It doesn't matter whether I assign a word or a location or a reference, he is infinity, and finite cannot describe infinity without losing itself in it.

When I read what I wrote it sounds like gibberish to me. Maybe that's why I wanted to hear other thoughts on the subject.

Thanks though, it was lovely to read another opinion.
"Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many fons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan, and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?"
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Frater AOV » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:11 pm

even the great God No God is still a God.
93 93/93
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Re: There! is no God

Postby seekinghga » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:03 pm

Hego wrote:93s everyone!!
I'm quoting a passage in the Cry of the 5th Aethry from the Vision and the Voice:

The Angel prompts me to whisper: “There is no god.” So they let me pass, and though there was
indeed nothing visible therein, yet there was a very strange atmosphere, which I could not understand.
.....
But they have a different sense. I had taken them to be a denial of the existence of God, but the man who says
them to me evidently means nothing of the sort: What he does mean I cannot tell at all. He slightly emphasized the word “there.”

OK.

"There" is no God. What does he mean by that? Is there a place in the universe where the omnipresent does not show his presence? Or am I missing some hidden meaning here?

OBVIOUSLY, if something is "omnipresent" then that would contain all places, including "There" where it is Not. Hmm. It is one of the trails to Adepthood to be able to comprehend the Unity in such a statement. Where does the otherwise disparagement occur?

Thanks in advance.
I love you all!!!

:)
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Hego » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:15 pm

seekinghga wrote:OBVIOUSLY, if something is "omnipresent" then that would contain all places, including "There" where it is Not. Hmm. It is one of the trails to Adepthood to be able to comprehend the Unity in such a statement. Where does the otherwise disparagement occur?


If I am on the right track so far:

Since God is everything and all there ever was, is and will be, excluding someplace as "there" is a blasphemy in itself. As stated in the Poem "AHA!":

All thoughts are evil. Thought is two:
The seer and the seen. Eschew
That supreme blasphemy, my son,
Remembering that God is One.


Do I understand this concept correctly?
"Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many fons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan, and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?"
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Re: There! is no God

Postby seekinghga » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:16 pm

Hego wrote:
seekinghga wrote:OBVIOUSLY, if something is "omnipresent" then that would contain all places, including "There" where it is Not. Hmm. It is one of the trails to Adepthood to be able to comprehend the Unity in such a statement. Where does the otherwise disparagement occur?


If I am on the right track so far:

Since God is everything and all there ever was, is and will be, excluding someplace as "there" is a blasphemy in itself. As stated in the Poem "AHA!":

All thoughts are evil. Thought is two:
The seer and the seen. Eschew
That supreme blasphemy, my son,
Remembering that God is One.


Do I understand this concept correctly?

Answer this: What is "God"?
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Hego » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:32 pm

seekinghga wrote:Answer this: What is "God"?


I was just thinking about this question myself actually. I don't have an idea but I want to know him. But my human brain will not be able to apprehend being of beings even though I see, touch, hear him. Right now all the answers that I can provide for this question will be resultant of my poorly designed faculties. All the things I can associate him will be based on my experiences gained through my senses. But Qoran says:

"He is exalted above what you associate him with"

So I will not be able to define, describe him without joining him in his unity. Only the concept of God for me is:

The ultimate being with infinite knowledge, infinite energy, infinite matter, the combination of everything in the universe or universes. He is all there is.
"Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many fons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan, and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?"
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Re: There! is no God

Postby seekinghga » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:42 pm

Hego wrote: But my human brain will not be able to apprehend being of beings even though I see, touch, hear him.

Exactly! :P Still your mind.

Right now all the answers that I can provide for this question will be resultant of my poorly designed faculties. All the things I can associate him will be based on my experiences gained through my senses. But Qoran says:

"He is exalted above what you associate him with"

So I will not be able to define, describe him without joining him in his unity. Only the concept of God for me is:

The ultimate being with infinite knowledge, infinite energy, infinite matter, the combination of everything in the universe or universes. He is all there is.

Not bad, but it is lacking on one point...

I was just thinking about this question myself actually. I don't have an idea but I want to know him.

If you seriously want to know "Him" (gender is not applicable) then you need to still your mind by concentration. All of your wondering is the very thing which keeps you from God. God is the omnipresence which touches everything and which touches nothing. Where does this all occur? WHERE do all of the attributes of "God" come into play and make themselves KNOWN to us? It is in the mind. This is why the mind must be taught and trained to keep still. :)
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Hego » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:50 pm

seekinghga wrote:Not bad, but it is lacking on one point...

If you seriously want to know "Him" (gender is not applicable) then you need to still your mind by concentration. All of your wondering is the very thing which keeps you from God. God is the omnipresence which touches everything and which touches nothing. Where does this all occur? WHERE do all of the attributes of "God" come into play and make themselves KNOWN to us? It is in the mind. This is why the mind must be taught and trained to keep still. :)


Please tell me what it is lacking.

And as always it is a joy to hear your thoughts seekinghga!
"Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many fons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan, and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?"
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Re: There! is no God

Postby seekinghga » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:07 pm

Hego wrote:Please tell me what it is lacking.

It is not a "lack", per se.

And as always it is a joy to hear your thoughts seekinghga!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15393&p=101860#p101860
And here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15541

Let me try this. When you are falling asleep, are you able to recognize the state of mind when there are thoughts running but there is not yourself present to be thinking them? Otherwise, you need to just train the mind to keep to an object. I dunno, beyond that. I've given much instruction. Now, mind you AL: 1:44. Don't forget that. Just focus your mind. Come back at me.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: There! is no God

Postby Hego » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:21 pm

seekinghga wrote:
Let me try this. When you are falling asleep, are you able to recognize the state of mind when there are thoughts running but there is not yourself present to be thinking them? Otherwise, you need to just train the mind to keep to an object. I dunno, beyond that. I've given much instruction. Now, mind you AL: 1:44. Don't forget that. Just focus your mind. Come back at me.


I don't need to fall asleep, thoughts are always there without my permission.
I neglected meditation for sooo long. But for the last 4 months I've been using anti- depressants and anti-psychotics. That calmed my mind really good.
And I assume AL: 1:44 is Liber Legis 1:44 right?


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"Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many fons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan, and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?"
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Re: There! is no God

Postby seekinghga » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:28 pm

Hego wrote:I don't need to fall asleep, thoughts are always there without my permission.

They, your thoughts, are there because there is not discipline of them. Whether you are capable of keeping them still, I can not judge...

I neglected meditation for sooo long. But for the last 4 months I've been using anti- depressants and anti-psychotics. That calmed my mind really good.

Hego wrote:
All thoughts are evil. Thought is two:
The seer and the seen. Eschew
That supreme blasphemy, my son,
Remembering that God is One.



And I assume AL: 1:44 is Liber Legis 1:44 right?

Yeah.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: There! is no God

Postby FiatYod » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:45 am

Well, when I read this passage, two verses came up in my mind:

I am alone: there is no God where I am.

- Liber AL, II:23 (and note who says that, "where" he is, etc.)

I invoke Thee, the Terrible and Invisible god: Who dwellest in the Void Place of the Spirit:

- Liber Samekh

So I agree that THERE is no God.
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Re: There! is no God

Postby seekinghga » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:17 am

FiatYod wrote:
I invoke Thee, the Terrible and Invisible god: Who dwellest in the Void Place of the Spirit:

- Liber Samekh

Well, when you reach that "Void Place" you will see that such voidance is Full. ;)
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: There! is no God

Postby FiatYod » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:50 am

seekinghga wrote:
FiatYod wrote:
I invoke Thee, the Terrible and Invisible god: Who dwellest in the Void Place of the Spirit:

- Liber Samekh

Well, when you reach that "Void Place" you will see that such voidance is Full. ;)

And that is fine. I was only saying that it isn't THERE.
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Re: There! is no God

Postby seekinghga » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:07 am

Hego, to follow up on my responses to you I wish to say that the Hindu technique called "Neti, neti" is very powerful in obtaining quiescence of mind. It's not immediate, but it IS powerful. Supplement it with the practices in Liber 3 and it might help.

Now, I do feel the need to remark on the method of Liber 3. Liber 3 DOES NOT achieve its end result due to the sole influence of negative reinforcement. It is all about cultivating subconscious vigilance against performing a particular activity or harboring a particular thought. The first time I tried it was with a knife and it worked. Then I tried it with a rubber band and that also worked. Then I tried it with a simple sheet of paper kept in my pocket, which I marked with a pen every time that I made a break, and that worked too. I highly suggest the paper and pen incarnation of the practice, as it is equally effective and leaves punishment of the body to asana practice. ;)
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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