Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

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Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby gerry456 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:54 am

I'm sure you've all heard of his kundalini disaster, where did he go wrong?
Why did his HGA not help him?
How would the A'A' system have averted that hell if you see what I mean?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:44 am

I think the main place he went wrong was in forcing the result. There was a lack of equilibrium in him.

One might also say that it was in pushing for a result in the first case: Those who push for powers tend to get them, but it tends to block or choke or strangle actual attainment, i.e., spiritual growth.

And... why do you think his HGA didn't help him? Were you expecting some sort of intervention event that kept him from making stupid mistakes? Nope, that rarely happens: There are mistakes, and we are not protected from them. Mistakes are our teachers. And, considering that Gopi Krishna didn't first attain the K&C of the HGA, the first event opened up enormous channels of guidance. It then took a lifetime for him to equilibrate it... but oh, what a lifetime! It empowered him to tell a story of enormous service to others.
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby Frater INRI » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:30 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:And... why do you think his HGA didn't help him? Were you expecting some sort of intervention event that kept him from making stupid mistakes?

Nope, that rarely happens: There are mistakes, and we are not protected from them. Mistakes are our teachers. And, considering that Gopi Krishna didn't first attain the K&C of the HGA, the first event opened up enormous channels of guidance.

Very well said, Jim.

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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby Saeptus » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:56 am

So many freakin' factors.

I assume the initial state of the lower chakras before waking Kundalini is crucial. ie decent health and stamina, experience with fasting. And if they aren't up to snuff, then having the time, resources, and information available to cope with the disequilibrium in time. The digestive organs especially suck to go through.

Haven't read the book in a while, but Gopi Krishna's father seemed to have issues as well and probably affected his take on the whole experience.
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby gerry456 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:58 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:I think the main place he went wrong was in forcing the result. There was a lack of equilibrium in him.

Yeah I hesitate to say stupid decision but ultimately his story has become a guide for others.

Jim Eshelman wrote:One might also say that it was in pushing for a result in the first case: Those who push for powers tend to get them, but it tends to block or choke or strangle actual attainment, i.e., spiritual growth..

Yeah we don't know if he was a flawed person or how flawed.

Jim Eshelman wrote:And... why do you think his HGA didn't help him? Were you expecting some sort of intervention event that kept him from making stupid mistakes? Nope, that rarely happens: .

Well I had a occult teacher who told me that the HGA will step in when we're about to make a bad decision. I know that the HGA sees most human problems as trivial and mundane but when it comes to spiritual harm it will step in.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:08 pm

gerry456 wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:And... why do you think his HGA didn't help him? Were you expecting some sort of intervention event that kept him from making stupid mistakes? Nope, that rarely happens: .

Well I had a occult teacher who told me that the HGA will step in when we're about to make a bad decision.

That would be contrary to what I've witnessed and the teachings of everyone in my line back to and including Crowley (barring a very severe, e.g., fatal, mistake).

I know that the HGA sees most human problems as trivial and mundane but when it comes to spiritual harm it will step in.

One is more likely to get a nudge when one is about to commit an oversight; but if there is something innate in a person's nature or how they have reality framed, the more severe "spiritual harm" would come from "saving" the person from the mistake. One has to re-form oneself and overcome one's own illusions. There are numerous mistakes that it would be easier to claim that the HGA helped contrive as learning situations, than to expect that one would get "saved" from them.

"Mistake" might even be a mistaken idea. One needs to deepen one's instinct for consequences without judgment.
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby gerry456 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:08 pm

I see what you mean.

Gopi Krsna musn't have worked steadily in step by step in asana aiming for automatic rigidity. Likewise he musn't have had the systematic gradual ascent of pranayama-counts as featured in LiberE. Maybe if he would have done so, he wouldn't have wrecked himself.

As you said to me in another thread, emotional reactivity levels affect pranayama success. Imo, regular asana sessions work on emotional reactivity automatically.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby Saeptus » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:28 pm

Our flaws make us visible. For better or for worse.

Makes me wonder about celebrities and politicians...
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby sk4p » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:05 am

I feel that if one's HGA always stepped in to prevent even spiritual harm (at least, the sort of spiritual harm that affects an entire incarnation), no one would ever fail at crossing the Abyss, right? The Angel would keep you from jumping. And yet it happens.


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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby bdc » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:03 am

In the A.'.A.'. system, with one properly going through each of the grades / completing all the tasks, is the complete rising of the Kundalini generally to occur after K&C of the HGA? I recall a mention before that Soror Meral had her Kundalini rising experience right after K&C...

I'm curious because Meditation SSS is a task of the grade of 3=8. Is complete Kundalini rising not induced by this meditation?

And one final question, just how linked are the K&C of the HGA, the awakening into Briatic consciousness, and the full rising of the Kundalini? Are they all, or all part of, the same event? I was under the impression that the K&C is the awakening into Briatic consciousness (stabilising as the 'baseline' consciousness), and yet the enlightenment results of Kundalini awakening also sound like a shift into constant Briatic consciousness. And Gopi Krishna also reports receiving inspired poetic texts (which made me think of both the reception of Holy Books and the voice of the HGA as personal genius).
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:37 am

bdc wrote:In the A.'.A.'. system, with one properly going through each of the grades / completing all the tasks, is the complete rising of the Kundalini generally to occur after K&C of the HGA? I recall a mention before that Soror Meral had her Kundalini rising experience right after K&C...

She did, which I think is because it hadn't happened sooner.

Most often it happens in the early grades (1=10 or 2=9) and then, as you alluded to later in your post, there is a practice in 3=8 that, before I was 3=8, I thought was meant to induce it and, after I was 3=8, I saw it did other things (among them, stabilizing and normalizing it - but the particulars might be individual).

And one final question, just how linked are the K&C of the HGA, the awakening into Briatic consciousness, and the full rising of the Kundalini?

I don't think there is an intrinsic connection of the rising of Kundalini to the other two - it's primarily a biological phenomenon (which, come to think of it, is probably why it tends to happen in advanced 1=10), with later Yetziratic implications.

As for the other two, I want to start answering slightly differently. The A.'.A.'. 5=6 grade is intrinsically linked to opened Briatic consciousness (a consequence of completing the Dominus Liminis work) in the same way that the Zelator grade is intrinsically linked to opened Yetziratic consciousness (a consequence of completing the Neophyte grade). If, by K&C of the HGA, you mean the phenomena distinctive to 5=6 (rather than the many layers of progressively opening connection and interaction with the HGA in the grades before that), then the model is that 5=6 Without presumes already awakened Briatic consciousness, and 5=6 Within (marked by attainment of the K&C) has... something more. I have described this as the Briatic consciousness opening itself to interpenetration by Atziluthic consciousness - being the grail into which the Great Lance is thrust.

I was under the impression that the K&C is the awakening into Briatic consciousness (stabilising as the 'baseline' consciousness), and yet the enlightenment results of Kundalini awakening also sound like a shift into constant Briatic consciousness.

That's way advanced. A majority of people who have awakened Kundalini have never open to Briatic consciousness (certainly not in the immediate aftermath of that experience). Gopi Krishna took decades to get that far, if I'm recalling his story correctly (it's been decades since I devoured that book).

And Gopi Krishna also reports receiving inspired poetic texts (which made me think of both the reception of Holy Books and the voice of the HGA as personal genius).

Yes. Again, though, that came late in life, didn't it? (That's what I'm remembering.) A lot of us went through phases of writing intense poetry in upper-Yetziratic layers (during the stages of building bridges between Yetzirah and Briah - Netzach is a common place, since the themes are so often of love and come out as expressions of devotion), but some of his (writing in languages he'd never learned) seems much more than this.
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby bdc » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:59 am

Excellent stuff, thanks for that, it has cleared up a lot.

And yes, there are decades between Gopi Krishna's awakening and the enlightenment and receiving inspired texts, decades spent dealing with the crisis of apparently forcing Kundalini, seemingly up Pingala (ferocious febrile heat being a particular symptom of his - extremely unpleasant and life threatening - condition).
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby bdc » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:37 pm

One other thing I'm curious about, any idea / educated guesses on when exactly Crowley had his own complete Kundalini awakening and rising? Did he ever write about it specifically in his diaries or other books?
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:39 pm

I'm pretty sure that's what he meant on his discussion of New Year's Eve 1893, the experience that set him on the path.
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby Starry Soul » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:00 pm

Wasn't it 96-97?
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:07 pm

There were two consecutive NYE events related. I thought the second & decisive one was December 31 '97, but I'm going from Memory. It was 10 1/2 months before his GD initiation.
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Re: Where did Gopi Krsna go wrong?

Postby gerry456 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:56 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:There were two consecutive NYE events related. I thought the second & decisive one was December 31 '97, but I'm going from Memory. It was 10 1/2 months before his GD initiation.

Is this the Stockholm experience?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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