A question about mysticism

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A question about mysticism

Postby asclepio » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:19 pm

93
As I'm starting in my spritual journey and magical practice I've devoted myself to Nuit (following liber 175 of invocation by adoration) and according to Liber NV of course, but here is my question.

As I advance and worship more the beautiful goddess and starry lady I've found myself writing a lot in my magical diary about Nuit in a very "mystical sense" if you will, thing is I have not yet found on the internet any mystical writing about Nuit, or about the ecstacy and joy that is the pressence of Nuit. I often find christian mystics, or writings by mystics of their contact or adoration of their gods (how pale they look in comparison to our lovely lady!), but not one thelemic mystic writing about Nuit!

So, is there such a writing? I read Crowley's epistole "concerning death" in the hermetic.com website, I found it extremely inspirational and spiritually profound, I've read it and re-read it, even translated it to spanish (it might be the first translation of such beautiful writing), but other than that I've found nothing.

Where am I going wrong? Or where can I find this kind of inspirational writings about mystical approaches to Nuit and intimate spiritual conections with our goddess?

93 93/93
93/93 "For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:15 pm

How about this?

Thirty One Hymns to the Star Goddess by Frater Acbad
http://www.amazon.com/Thirty-One-Hymns- ... 85-5629433

I will also mention that the I° admission ritual of Aspirants to Light - www.aspirantstolight.org - is a expansively devotional to Nuit.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
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"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
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Postby asclepio » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:52 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:How about this?

Thirty One Hymns to the Star Goddess by Frater Acbad
http://www.amazon.com/Thirty-One-Hymns- ... 85-5629433

I will also mention that the I° admission ritual of Aspirants to Light - www.aspirantstolight.org - is a expansively devotional to Nuit.

93 Jim,
Thanks for the info!

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Postby asclepio » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:33 pm

93
Another question, in Liber ABA Crowley talks about invocation through 3 methods, what I want to know is why do people invoke so many gods, Zeus, Jupiter, Mars, Thor, Loki, etc., when there are already Nuit and Hadit, Liber NU and Liber Had? Why does this happen?

Wouldn't it be more efficient, in terms of the great work, to invoke Nuit, then Hadit and that's it?

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Postby Rev.D » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:27 pm

why do people invoke so many gods, Zeus, Jupiter, Mars, Thor, Loki, etc., when there are already Nuit and Hadit, Liber NU and Liber Had? Why does this happen?

Why not?
There are many aspects of the whole, and more often than not, those who worship such Gods do so because of a personal affinity.
Zeus and Jupiter, they are one and the same, the Sky Father, Husband of the Earth. Mythology gets complicated, but when you boil it all down you have such aspects representing various areas, Sky, Earth, Ocean, Underworld, War, Knowledge etc etc.
There are many names and faces for such.
Take our Lady Nuit, she has been known throughout history and in various aspects we find her in Ishtar/Inanna the (Queen of Heaven), we see her as Eurynome and Aphrodite, Great Black Night to the Tantrics etc, then there are the death aspects.

If you're a warrior going into battle, to who do ye pray?
If you're a smith lighting your forge, to who do ye pray?

Does this help answer?

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Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:58 pm

asclepio wrote:...what I want to know is why do people invoke so many gods, Zeus, Jupiter, Mars, Thor, Loki, etc., when there are already Nuit and Hadit, Liber NU and Liber Had? Why does this happen?

Wouldn't it be more efficient, in terms of the great work, to invoke Nuit, then Hadit and that's it?

Setting aside the fact that you've entirely left out the God of Chapter 3, I think one of the lines in Chapter 3 gives the answer:

CCXX 3:22 wrote:The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
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Postby jw. » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:08 pm

From Magick Without Tears "The Gods: How and Why they Overlap":
Crowley wrote:Consider Zeus, Jupiter, Amon- Ra, Indra, etc., we can think of them as the same identical people known and described by Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and Hindus; they differ as Mont Cervin differs from Monte Silvio and the Matterhorn. (They are bound to appear different, because the mountain does not look the same from Zermatt as it does from Domodossola, or even as seen by a French-Swiss and a German-Swiss.) In the same way read the Life of Napoleon written by one of his marshals, by Michelet (a rabid Republican), by Lord Rosebery, by a patriotic Russian, and by a German poet and philosopher: one can hardly believe that the subject of any two of these biographies is the same man.


[See elsewhere: Jung's concepts of god "archetypes" as components of human collective unconsciousness.]
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Postby A Shadow » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:56 am

Lady Nuit is my love!

If I try to say more than that I may go on and on. ;)

But the Goddess I invopke daily is Artemis--because she helps me be and do what I need in my daily life--at work, in other interactions. Being smaller and more specific(?) than Nuit her attributes are easier to capture--she helps me stay focused on goals and achieve them with ease and skill. She helps me remain fair, and also enables me to acquire the aid of others. She helps me retain the kind of perspective I like to keep in my daily life--and she is an open-handed patroness for those who are loyal. Of course one should keep the aspects of "Horus" in mind during the day as well. But sometimes this presence is too intense for me, and I like to give Him his proper time, away from daily worries. Phoebe Artemis works for me! (Theres a slogan!)

This is my own personal example of why other gods might be useful. In certain situations I pray to or invoke many other gods who might be helpful.

But every night I worship Her without fail. :)

--M
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Postby xfilesalbania » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:11 am

I can see, everyone of you worships or loves a god.
But i can hardly think of one god that i like, and worship is not of me,
maybe because i'm not ready yet, and i have still that bad experience in worshiping the judeo/christian/islamic god.
I understand that the concept of god is different in paganism and thelema, and i understand this perfectly with heart and mind,
and i wanted to ask,
is it necessary to worship any god in order to be a thelemite or at least to be coherent with Master Therion teachings?
Thank you and please forgive my ignorance and profane way of thinking for i came here to be enlightened.
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:07 am

xfilesalbania wrote:I can see, everyone of you worships or loves a god. But i can hardly think of one god that i like, and worship is not of me,
maybe because i'm not ready yet, and i have still that bad experience in worshiping the judeo/christian/islamic god.

I think that's probably so.

There are all sorts of variations. Some people approach this work (initially) as nearly atheists. Others especially worship particular deities of their choosing. Others move smoothly among several. (Even the ceremonial magick approach, which applies a different Divine Name to each Sephirah etc., is a process of worshiping various Hebrew divine ideas according to the occasion.)

In Chapter 3, Ra-Hoor-Khuit instructs us to place all the other gods (any gods whatsoever) around him - with RHK at the center. Worshiping them is worshiping Him.

The Probationer 0=0 A.'.A.'. is taught from the very first hour that, when encountering the name of any god soever, he or she should not confuse it with any god at all except that one which is directly known to him or her.

The Philosophus 4=7 of A.'.A.'. is required to master the technique and theory Liber Astarte - which requires that some god be picked to worship which has a nature not incompatible with the idea of love. This is probably the first point in the A.'.A.'. system where worship is out-and-out required, and it is quite a way down the road.

is it necessary to worship any god in order to be a thelemite or at least to be coherent with Master Therion teachings?

Technically, no - not to be a Thelemite. (Though Liber L. does call for you to worship!) If by "be coherent with Master Therion teachings" you mean to follow the A.'.A.'. system, then I don't think anything below 4=7 actually necessitates it.
Last edited by Jim Eshelman on Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
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"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
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Postby xfilesalbania » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:11 am

Thank you for your reply,
i understand the point of worshiping a god,
it's just that i'm not ready yet, mainly because i have to find what my true will is.

Love is the Law , Love under Will.
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Postby Andie » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:53 am

I sometimes find it helpful to think of deity as that "Great Disco Ball in the Sky". It has many facets (i.e. different forms of deity--the different gods and goddesses) to reach out to, and yet they are all parts of one whole.

...Not to mention the fact that a disco ball is made of mirrors.. :)
.··-.¸.-··. (`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
`·. .·´ «´¨`·*Andie*·´¨`».,'`.
`·´ (¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`·´)'
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Postby Edward Mason » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:27 am

93,

Xfilesalbania wrote:
it's just that i'm not ready yet, mainly because i have to find what my true will is.


Maybe exploring the nature of different gods is a really good way of discovering just what your True Will is?

They bring out strong reactions in you, obviously, so there must be a lot of clues about who you are in the responses you have to different gods. Knowing who we are is good first step in finding out what we are here to do.

93 93/93,

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Postby Draco Magnus » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:54 am

Andie wrote:
I sometimes find it helpful to think of deity as that "Great Disco Ball in the Sky".


Do I hear Abba?
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Postby Andie » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:19 am

*snickers *
.··-.¸.-··. (`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
`·. .·´ «´¨`·*Andie*·´¨`».,'`.
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Postby A Shadow » Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:57 am

Maybe exploring the nature of different gods is a really good way of discovering just what your True Will is?


Agreed! As a fumbling neophyte myself I find this top be true. If they are nothing else (and I believe the are) "gods" are the tried and tested sets of principles and archtypes upon which people have been focusing their spiritual energies for thousands of years. In my mind, because they have been shaped and focused upon by so many as sources f inspiration, gods are always essentially good. You are not going to harm yourself (in psyche or otherwise) by focusing on any god. Some are mysterious, some are angry, some are dark or strange, but they are all based on higher principles, and collections of truths observed by many in nature and humanity. I think gods are a good place to start when you don't feel you have a great understanding of yourself--one need not deal with them harshly or confidently as with a demon, but rather openly and with something like humility.

:)

--M
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Postby xfilesalbania » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:36 am

Agreed with all of you,
thank you Edward for your advice.
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