Independent Ancient Streams

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Re: Independent Ancient Streams

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:45 pm

Qabalah as such doesn't exist before the 1st Millennium A.D. (It had predecessors, though.)
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Re: Independent Ancient Streams

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:57 pm

Qabalah arose out of prior Hebrew traditions called Raz and Sod that were essentially the same thing, plus the Merkaba tradition as a major antecedent.

Its proto-ideas, though, are already present in the first chapter of Genesis, so would trace to at least the time that it was written.
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Re: Independent Ancient Streams

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:48 pm

Tibet came later. The besr evidence is that Tibet was influenced a bit by the Middle East (possibly as far west as Egypt), not the other way around.

I don't know tbat a yone hasca handle on proto-Qabalah. I don't know of any evidence that there were any outside influences though, if there were, Babylon is most likely! except, tbere ks nothing that bas survived from Mesopotamia that sufficiently resembles it. The roots are clearly in a Semitic language, with some internal clues that it arose from proto-Hebrew.
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Re: Independent Ancient Streams

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:42 pm

Meletiros wrote:Did the Vedic/Sarasvati tradition develop independently of Egypt?

As far as I know.

How likely is it that Egypt inherited models from a more ancient people?

You mean like really ancient Egyptians <vbg>? There are, of course, legends of Atlanteans, but I don't take that seriously; and there was early cross-pollenation of Egypt and Mesopotamia. And fragments of their religion came from other parts of Africa. But in general? I'm not aware of any evidence of a wholesale inheritance.
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Re: Independent Ancient Streams

Postby the atlas itch » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:15 pm

Meletiros wrote:How likely is it that Egypt inherited models from a more ancient people?

If you compare Plato’s account in Timaeus of the empire of Atlantis subjecting “parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia” with Egyptian hieroglyphs suggesting that Thoth was an Atlantean:

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Hiero.html

it does not seem so far-fetched to conclude that, at the very least, alchemy came originally from Atlantis and spread later to ancient Egypt. Wikipedia provides the following on Thoth:

The Egyptians credited him as the author of all works of science, religion, philosophy, and magic. The Greeks further declared him the inventor of astronomy, astrology, the science of numbers, mathematics, geometry, land surveying, medicine, botany, theology, civilized government, the alphabet, reading, writing, and oratory. They further claimed he was the true author of every work of every branch of knowledge, human and divine.

Edit: The identification of Thoth as an Atlantean is subject, of course, to where one understands the columns of Heracles to be and, by implication, the location of Atlantis with respect to Egypt, to determine the "Land of the West". I follow the traditional interpretation that the columns of Heracles = the Strait of Gibraltar. I've heard Atlantis as being located off the coast of Belize, Canary Islands, Thera and, most recently, off the coast of Spain.
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