LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

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LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:43 am

(Just in case there is someone around who doesn't know ;) )

LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination is our own Jim Eshelman's book on - in his own words- "Tarot in a larger scope".

I am starting this thread to post insights and notes as i'll be going through the book and i'll be very happy if someone joins me me in this endeavor and posts here too.

The book is available for free download from: http://www.thelema.org/publications/books/LiberT.pdf
Last edited by magictortoise on Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby Corvinae » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:53 am

Pssst. It is Eshelman not Esherman....

I look forward to reading and hopefully contribute.....
Love is the Law.
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:57 am

An excerpt on the book, its style, recommended use and goals:
"The present book is an evolution of the original Book T. The initial idea was to preserve as much of the original as possible, because of its rich tradition and continuing value. In fact, however, much more was found needing change and expansion than was first thought. Students comparing the two documents side-by-side will easily find legacies of the original, and nothing was changed simply for the sake of change. But much was remade.
In its present form, Liber Q: Tarot Symbolism & Divination is an official instruction for a sub-grade of the 5° (Adeptus) of Temple of Thelema. However, it is not a secret document.
Therefore, the governing authorities of Temple of Thelema have ordered this work be published
openly. This does not detract from the value of its study by adepts of T.O.T. at the proper
point in their training.
Those readers who simply desire a book with interpretations for each Tarot card will find
what they seek in the present book, without need of any special prior knowledge. In fact, they
can cut straight to the summaries in Appendix A. However, they also will find that they do not
understand 90% of the rest. In all honesty, they might be happier seeking out the popular works
of Eden Gray.
Primarily, this present book teaches Tarot in terms of the philosophical model of the Qabalah. Its greatest virtue will emerge if the reader uses it, first, as a basis for intellectual study – to get a grounding – and then as a guidebook to extensive meditation on the nature of the 78 principles here expressed. Once meditation has associated the meanings of these cards to the student’s own experiences (both interior and exterior, so-called), the cards themselves will speak far more lucidly than any book could. The student then will be able to use them with actual understanding.
A systematic approach is recommended. Devoting a week to each card will allow the student to complete this cycle of meditation in about one-and-a-half years – some of the most amazing years of one’s life, we are certain."

LIBER Θ, p. iv - v
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:59 am

Veronica wrote:Pssst. It is Eshelman not Esherman....

I look forward to reading and hopefully contribute.....


Thank you, Veronica! 'Twas a typo! :angel:

Looking forward to reading your insights!!!
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:32 am

Mr Eshelman refers to The Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune; i'need to read it to see whether and how her views differ from those of Jewish Kabbalists -as , for example, explained in Rav Berg's 'Taming Chaos' (from Kabbalist view, that's the best one on the Tree of Life for beginners.)

Fortune's books, which are not under copyright , can be downloaded from here: http://darkbooks.org/pp.php?v=1578379709

(And many other places i suppose - that's just the first link i checked.)

I knew of Dion Fortune only by name, so i read wiki entry on her for the start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dion_Fortune

I see that her works on Occult is interpreted into Serbian, wonder whether her fiction is too... that's what i'd love to read!
Especially the short stories - The Demon Lover, The Winged Bull, The Goat-Foot God, and The Secrets of Dr. Taverner.
(Note to self: check whether those are available.)
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:41 am

After a short break ( having being on the coast and ended up in ER with heat stroke), recommencing the studies!

I wanted to note that LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination is very different from all the books i've read on Tarot so far - and i am loving it!
Its quite concise, yet its very deep and the the writing style is polished like a diamond!
Not a single word in excess, yet all there!
I am going through the Trumps (for xy time... ), those i more or less get not only in Thoth, but in Tarot an general; the really hard work for me work is yet to come - those damned Courts!
I am thinking of taking one per week (as suggested in the book) and trying to get as much from them (and into them ;) ) as i can!
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:49 am

Thanks for the generous praise - sounds like it's working for you!

As you've probably discerned, the build-up to the Court Cards is through the other parts of the deck. After assimilating the Trumps, you can use the trumps to understand (and build up your system set for) the Minors; and, once those are built in you, then you can employ the Minors to build up the symbol sets in the Court Cards.

Or, of course, you can just read about the Court Cards you want to know about <vbg>.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:45 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:As you've probably discerned, the build-up to the Court Cards is through the other parts of the deck. After assimilating the Trumps, you can use the trumps to understand (and build up your system set for) the Minors; and, once those are built in you, then you can employ the Minors to build up the symbol sets in the Court Cards.


Thank you so much for the guidance, Jim! Much appreciated! Will follow your suggestion!
Your method is outstanding and your approach is really special - i am warmly recommending it all over to Tarot communities!

What's revolutionary in the method, that a general (non-Thelemic) Tarotist can get from it - is an absolutely different way of approaching the cards, more like mastering their energies - very unlike the traditional RWS scholarly approach! (And far more empowering too!)

Also, the most interesting part is that your approach is of big interest to the 3d tradition in Tarot - the Tarot of Marseilles; one of the key people behind its revival , Enrique Enriquez , is deep into linguistics and semiotics too - and these words from your book sounds like premonition there!
Figuratively speaking, each Trump is a word; each Minor is a sentence composed of several
words; and each Court Card is a paragraph composed of several sentences.
As with native language skills, this assimilation has its own pace. The best, longest-lasting
results have been produced when students spend no less than three days incorporating each card
– each meme, or transmissible unit of consciousness – into their brains.

Amazing!
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby Corvinae » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:18 pm

I think I need a cigarette,

And I don't even smoke.
Wow, fortunately I am still young, healthy and sane.
Thanks for the ideas, I think I will reread that.
Love is the Law.
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby gmugmble » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:21 am

DigitalScars wrote: Start without the Tarot. You should not start with the Tarot.

I beg to differ. The tarot is a book (albeit one with many translations, some better than others), so approach it like a book. Get yourself a good deck, find some quiet time, open it, go through it page by page, and see what each card says. Just read it like a book. Go ahead -- even fondle it. (If you're a true bibliophile, you know that some books are quite sensuous and make you want to fondle them.)

So what is a "good deck"? I can't help you there. Go to your local voodoo supply store, see what they've got, and get what appeals to you. Despite Crowley's criticisms, I think the Smith-Waite deck is fine. Of course as a Thelemite I can recommend the Thoth tarot. Do stay away from silly "theme" decks. (A friend of mine once gave me a "dragon" tarot with a fantasy dragon on each card. I once saw a deck where each card featured a different pair of shoes. These are too gimmicky to take seriously. On the other hand, I'm compelled to admit that the symbolism of the Helly Kitty tarot -- you can find it online -- is frighteningly good.)
-- Robert W

"Friends in the Dharma, be satisfied with your own heads. Do not put any false heads above your own. Then, minute after minute, watch your step closely." -- Nyogen Senzaki
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby DigitalScars » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:50 am

gmugmble wrote:
DigitalScars wrote: Start without the Tarot. You should not start with the Tarot.

I beg to differ. The tarot is a book (albeit one with many translations, some better than others), so approach it like a book. Get yourself a good deck, find some quiet time, open it, go through it page by page, and see what each card says. Just read it like a book. Go ahead -- even fondle it. (If you're a true bibliophile, you know that some books are quite sensuous and make you want to fondle them.)

So what is a "good deck"? I can't help you there. Go to your local voodoo supply store, see what they've got, and get what appeals to you. Despite Crowley's criticisms, I think the Smith-Waite deck is fine. Of course as a Thelemite I can recommend the Thoth tarot. Do stay away from silly "theme" decks. (A friend of mine once gave me a "dragon" tarot with a fantasy dragon on each card. I once saw a deck where each card featured a different pair of shoes. These are too gimmicky to take seriously. On the other hand, I'm compelled to admit that the symbolism of the Helly Kitty tarot -- you can find it online -- is frighteningly good.)

Your instructions pertain strictly to learning a picture book. Mine were about the higher symbolism.
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby DigitalScars » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:02 am

Aegis wrote:You're pretty direct in your speech.

From personal experience, I suggest you introduce yourself and give some personal information in the Introduction section. We are accused by those who speak like you of training only LARPers and Role Players here, and we do get more than a few entirely grandiose personalities parading and pontificating. I could probably be accused of it myself except for the fact that I am constantly grounding and checking my mystical expressions by also providing real life information about myself so that no one gets confused about who or what I really am.

So...

Don't be shy.

Tell us about yourself.

Who are you?

Why concern yourself with those who would accuse you of anything? Is this not a form of the highest praise? I think you should be proud that your community holds such power that the weak are driven to point their finger and snivel at you. Yes, naturally there are those who are genuine in their efforts (and results), and those who only know vain words, those who would quote scripture until the day they are on their death beds, never knowing that that the truth was hidden in the spaces between the words. Who cares who is confused about you or who you really are? You don't really exist except in your own mind. Actually, strictly speaking, I am talking to myself as I speak to you, and this feeling is only amplified since I am not even familiar with you face to face (and pictures would not help in this regard). Why spend a second fretting about any of that? Look to the horizon: Your death awaits. Time is wasted when you are not doing something which is completely in tune with your nature. You need only check your natal horoscope, find out who you are, and then run with it. I am doing that right now. All you need to know about me is everything that I say here. Besides that it is none of your business, quite frankly, nor should you care since it isn't in your best interests.
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:21 am

DigitalScars wrote:I saw in your previous thread to this one (at least in regards to the study of the Thoth tarot) that people were saying "the deck doesn't matter". This is patently false. Allow me to elucidate why as I advise you on a strategy for integrating the occult deep into your subconscious.

Ohh, i just saw this.. Hope this post was not meant for me, as in that case it would be entirely wasted (i mean - it is anyway, just saying.)
I am studying from Jim's materials and we are really happy and honored here to have the possibility to ask him directly things we need more explaining; other than that , and friendly and supportive guidance from the friends here - i am not really interested. I've been reading Tarot for 15y now, have written (and published) two books of Tarot inspired fiction, am on a level of a Grandmaster, so its not that i am looking for any other guidance, exept the above listed. :)
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby Al-Shariyf » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:03 am

Tortoise side message me, I have an idea about working with Liber Theta.
"To advance—that means Work. Patient, exhausting, thankless, often bewildering Work. Dear sister, if you would but Work! Work blindly, foolishly, misguidedly, it doesn’t matter in the end: Work in itself has absolute virtue." -Magick Without Tears
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:40 am

Dar wrote:I like her - but damn... she is the dark side and I don't trust her and I'd never {****} her. :lol:

You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot :twisted:
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby Corvinae » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:46 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Dar wrote:I like her - but damn... she is the dark side and I don't trust her and I'd never {****} her. :lol:

You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot :twisted:


Very,

Dar, remember what we said about that word never......

I hate restrictions, don't wear shoes, panties, ect.....
And I never
Rule out a
Lover

Oops. Dang it, I said never didnt I.
Love is the Law.
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby Al-Shariyf » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:37 pm

'm in a huge huff (given past history) and I want to be actively challenged on ALL of my little games by a bloke that wants to {****} me for keeping. lol


I am more than up for that challenge says the cocky Prince of Wands :twisted:
"To advance—that means Work. Patient, exhausting, thankless, often bewildering Work. Dear sister, if you would but Work! Work blindly, foolishly, misguidedly, it doesn’t matter in the end: Work in itself has absolute virtue." -Magick Without Tears
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:34 pm

Dar wrote:*amused*

Tortoise is Gemini Sun and Scorp Asc (like me). But she has a chattering moon and I have Pisces which synthesizes and shuts up... I expect she's networking and stroking and adding the odd barb and the odd reward, which is why I called her superficial. :D

My Moon is in Gemini. :twisted:
The thing is that you are referring to Western astrology; by the one i rely on, Kabbalist , i am Sun in Taurus.
Given that i didn't have the honor of meeting you, the above is actually about the viewer's prism nothing else.
(Ohh, and, just for the sake of chart comparison, i have Stellium - Sun, Moon and Mars in 8th House. )


Dar wrote:Ha - Tortoise is also a family name (of my female side). It's an interesting Royal name. One of those dappled and speckled names that relate to strawberries and strange mushrooms of which the local lore abounds.

Once upon a time, Christ and St. Peter walked through Hungary on a fast, and Christ kept throwing away his good bread - which grew into wonderful mushrooms, but St. Peter was tempted by the devil and all the bread he threw away turned into poisonous shrooms...

Nomen est omen.
My mother is from those parts (former Austrian -Hungary), but we are not Christian so i can' really relate to the little tale you kindly shared.
Mine stems from the Yi Jing, 27th hexagram, 1st line


You let your magic tortoise go,
And look at me with the corners of your mouth drooping.
Misfortune.


The magic tortoise is a creature possessed of such supernatural powers that it lives on air and needs no earthly nourishment. The image means that a man fitted by nature and position to live freely and independently renounces this self-reliance and instead looks with envy and discontent at others who are outwardly in better circumstances. But such base envy only arouses derision and contempt in those others. This has bad results.
(Wilhelm-Baynes translation.)

Dar wrote:I like her - but damn... she is the dark side and I don't trust her and I'd never {****} her. :lol:

Hmm, wouldn't know with certainty what **** stands for, but as someone said - never say never.
Oh, and i like you too, but then i like most of the people - and probably your mom (or some other motherly figure) has thought you to Never Trust A Stranger (at least not with your heart.)

(Though, honestly, for my part, i don't recall trying to get your trust, or - per that matter -to invoke any other emotions and/or sensations, carnal or not. ;) )

Jim Eshelman wrote:You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot :twisted:


Thank you, Jim. My own pics are far hotter, its just... that the wings on the back are substituted with a pair of small horns at the top of the head. :angel:


eta for typo
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:51 pm

Veronica wrote:I think I need a cigarette,

Veronica, that's pretty much how i felt - and i lit a cigarette indeed.
(After quite some time of being smoke-free... need to get the patches once again. ;))
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:51 pm

Shadonis wrote:Tortoise side message me, I have an idea about working with Liber Theta.


Done!
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby RobertAllen » Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:53 pm

magictortoise wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot :twisted:

Thank you, Jim. My own pics are far hotter, its just... that the wings on the back are substituted with a pair of small horns at the top of the head. :angel:

I suspect magictortoise of being a man. No, I don't mind being wrong about this. There is just something about the way she flames.

Love and Will
"I remember seeing Atlas looking at a world whose hoops and rings had been broken by Copernicus, where Tycho Brahe placed his back beneath the globe, and a shouting Ptolemy tried to support the round lump, to stop it from falling into the void. In the mean time Copernicus was breaking many crystal spheres that were placed around the globe and was stamping out the little lights that flickered in the crystal jars." (de Hooghe, Hieroglyphica, Amsterdam, 1744)
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:58 pm

RobertAllen wrote:
magictortoise wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:You must admit, though, that her avatar looks pretty hot :twisted:

Thank you, Jim. My own pics are far hotter, its just... that the wings on the back are substituted with a pair of small horns at the top of the head. :angel:

I suspect magictortoise of being a man. No, I don't mind being wrong about this. There is just something about the way she flames.

Love and Will


Hahah!!! Lol!!! Maybe - in my head, but by the gender, no. 'Tis me (edited)
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby RobertAllen » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:03 pm

<sigh>

I don't do facebook. Yeah, I'm like the only person on the planet who doesn't. Principles suck sometimes! :(

EDIT: still a little confused, but I hope I did what was asked...

Love and Will
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"I remember seeing Atlas looking at a world whose hoops and rings had been broken by Copernicus, where Tycho Brahe placed his back beneath the globe, and a shouting Ptolemy tried to support the round lump, to stop it from falling into the void. In the mean time Copernicus was breaking many crystal spheres that were placed around the globe and was stamping out the little lights that flickered in the crystal jars." (de Hooghe, Hieroglyphica, Amsterdam, 1744)
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby magictortoise » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:11 pm

RobertAllen wrote:
magictortoise wrote:Hahah!!! Lol!!! Maybe - in my head, but by the gender, no. 'Tis me


<sigh>

I don't do facebook. Yeah, I'm like the only person on the planet who doesn't. Principles suck sometimes! :(

Love and Will


Aww... :(

Btw, i re-posted on fb the link to that art-site you shared , with credit (and link to) the Temple of Thelema too!.
Ok, this was just for you - but i'll edit the fb link, so please edit it too from the quote, ok?
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Re: LIBER Θ Tarot Symbolism and Divination

Postby RobertAllen » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:27 am

magictortoise wrote:Btw, i re-posted on fb the link to that art-site you shared , with credit (and link to) the Temple of Thelema too!.
Ok, this was just for you - but i'll edit the fb link, so please edit it too from the quote, ok?


I'm confused. I don't know what I'm supposed to do, or where to do it. :cry:

Love and Will
"I remember seeing Atlas looking at a world whose hoops and rings had been broken by Copernicus, where Tycho Brahe placed his back beneath the globe, and a shouting Ptolemy tried to support the round lump, to stop it from falling into the void. In the mean time Copernicus was breaking many crystal spheres that were placed around the globe and was stamping out the little lights that flickered in the crystal jars." (de Hooghe, Hieroglyphica, Amsterdam, 1744)
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