17 July (Fire) Liber LXV, 4:14-16

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17 July (Fire) Liber LXV, 4:14-16

Postby Mike » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:44 pm

14. Only the inn-keeper feareth lest the favour of the king be withdrawn from him.
15. Thus spake the Magister V.V.V.V.V. unto Adonai his God, as they played together in the starlight over against the deep black pool that is in the Holy Place of the Holy House beneath the Altar of the Holiest One.
16. But Adonai laughed, and played more languidly.
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Re: 17 July (Fire) Liber LXV, 4:14-16

Postby RobertAllen » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:33 pm

14. Only the inn-keeper feareth lest the favour of the king be withdrawn from him.
15. Thus spake the Magister V.V.V.V.V. unto Adonai his God, as they played together in the starlight over against the deep black pool that is in the Holy Place of the Holy House beneath the Altar of the Holiest One.
16. But Adonai laughed, and played more languidly.


Withdrawal.

I can most easily identify with the inn-keeper. The fear of death is experienced where I am, identified with this lower perspective; but not just death is feared, but all other senselessness (pointlessness, meaninglessness) as well.


The withdrawal of the divine spark. I guess that's me, and not. Anyway, the distress experienced below is obviously of little account to Adonai because the inn-keeper is not a real person. What does that say about the fear?

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Re: 17 July (Fire) Liber LXV, 4:14-16

Postby Al-Shariyf » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:44 am

14. Only the inn-keeper feareth lest the favour of the king be withdrawn from him.

My intitial impression of this was that it pertained to the "to good to be true-ness" of the rational mind. I get an image of a lowly maid or butler type that lives to serve its master not so much of out the spirit of service but the spirit of inferiority.

15. Thus spake the Magister V.V.V.V.V. unto Adonai his God, as they played together in the starlight over against the deep black pool that is in the Holy Place of the Holy House beneath the Altar of the Holiest One.

I don't get this verse

16. But Adonai laughed, and played more languidly.

Adonai is just having blast isn't he. But isn't that the point?
"To advance—that means Work. Patient, exhausting, thankless, often bewildering Work. Dear sister, if you would but Work! Work blindly, foolishly, misguidedly, it doesn’t matter in the end: Work in itself has absolute virtue." -Magick Without Tears
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Re: 17 July (Fire) Liber LXV, 4:14-16

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:09 am

Shadonis wrote:
15. Thus spake the Magister V.V.V.V.V. unto Adonai his God, as they played together in the starlight over against the deep black pool that is in the Holy Place of the Holy House beneath the Altar of the Holiest One.

I don't get this verse

The Magister (the Binah consciousness) has been speaking these last few ideas - Heh chatting to Yod. The next language broadly sets the scale as cosmic ("While they were hanging out next to the cosmic fountain, down the street from the 14th heaven," or whatever); but, more specifically, "starlight" seems to speak immediately of Chokmah symnbolim. The feeling of it all is "way deep." The analysis of it seems to me to point to Chokmah-related mysteries past where the Magister normally hangs out.

Why Chokmah again? The Holy Place is the second of three chambers of the tabernacle. Were one to map this against the Supernals, for the benefit of the Master, then Binah would be the Outer Court, Chokmah would be the Holy Place, and Kether would be the Holy of Holies. Within the Holy Place is a certain altar... and this is saying that the black pool is beneath it. (Though the base of that altar is equated to Malkuth, I'm not drawn to conclude that this is what is meant here.)
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Re: 17 July (Fire) Liber LXV, 4:14-16

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:40 am

Is the trio of Holy House, Holy Place, and Holiest One referring to the trio of Binah, Chokmah, and Kether?
Are they speaking from a position in Chokmah, "over against" the abyss, where it "connects to, and is below", Chokmah?
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Re: 17 July (Fire) Liber LXV, 4:14-16

Postby Tinman » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:43 am

Another explanation of the "Dark Pool" bit, from Crowley:

The circumstances of the dialogue are carefully explained. He is the Master of the Temple, V.V.V.V.V., not merely the Adept, who has simply attained union. The Angel is moreover identified specifically with the symbol of Adonai. They are playing together, i.e., in conscious communion; in the starlight, i.e., in the presence of Nuit; and the place of their meeting is the “deep black pool” symbolic of Binah, the sphere of the sorrow of Motherhood, the place of conception and the abodeof Understanding. The holy place is the three first Sephiroth, i.e., above the Abyss. The holy house is the Tree of Life. And the Altar of the holiest one is Kether.
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Re: 17 July (Fire) Liber LXV, 4:14-16

Postby RobertAllen » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:57 am

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:Is the trio of Holy House, Holy Place, and Holiest One referring to the trio of Binah, Chokmah, and Kether?
Are they speaking from a position in Chokmah, "over against" the abyss, where it "connects to, and is below", Chokmah?


Tinman wrote:Another explanation of the "Dark Pool" bit, from Crowley:

The circumstances of the dialogue are carefully explained. He is the Master of the Temple, V.V.V.V.V., not merely the Adept, who has simply attained union. The Angel is moreover identified specifically with the symbol of Adonai. They are playing together, i.e., in conscious communion; in the starlight, i.e., in the presence of Nuit; and the place of their meeting is the “deep black pool” symbolic of Binah, the sphere of the sorrow of Motherhood, the place of conception and the abodeof Understanding. The holy place is the three first Sephiroth, i.e., above the Abyss. The holy house is the Tree of Life. And the Altar of the holiest one is Kether.


Okay, so I can see both perspectives, easily. I did something similar myself and actually came up with a division that is somewhere in between Crowley's and AB's (I understand that AB was just asking questions, but it came across as a possible interpretation). I saw the black pool as Binah, the altar as Kether, and then, by a process of elimination decided the house must be Chockmah—also, Beth is two the number of Chockmah, and Beth means house...

I know there have been times when I could have justified the fact, and enjoyed the fact that there are in fact multiple interpretations. But in this moment I'm finding it hard. In my attempts to read this level of the text I often reach a place where, after any number of possible mappings, I roll my eyes and retreat into just focusing on what I can make of it in terms of my experiences. At the same time I get the impression there is in fact a more correct interpretation, at least this is the impression I get from many comments, especially Jim's.

Maybe the next time through this text it will be a question of focusing on trying to determine which is closer to the original intention of the author—not Crowley, but hat which used him. I dunno, but I think about such things a lot.

Love and Will
"I remember seeing Atlas looking at a world whose hoops and rings had been broken by Copernicus, where Tycho Brahe placed his back beneath the globe, and a shouting Ptolemy tried to support the round lump, to stop it from falling into the void. In the mean time Copernicus was breaking many crystal spheres that were placed around the globe and was stamping out the little lights that flickered in the crystal jars." (de Hooghe, Hieroglyphica, Amsterdam, 1744)
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Re: 17 July (Fire) Liber LXV, 4:14-16

Postby Al-Shariyf » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:34 am

Thanks for clarifying that Jim. The references to Holy House, Holy Place, and Holiest One did bring to mind the supernals but I still had a hard time making sense of it.
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