Coronavirus and Thelema

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Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby FiatYod » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:57 am

The lockdown that takes place in many countries today is a Restriction of countless True Wills. It may take months until the world gets back to normal.
I understand its necessity, but what should a Thelemite whose expression of True Will has been restricted do under these circumstances?
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby danica » Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:22 pm

Consider how being sick with the virus, dying, or spreading it around to others to get sick, restricts the Will.
- In this light, the temporary restriction of the outer movements of body comes as a useful, desirable limitation.
I don't see the isolation/quarantine as imposed-from-some-outside restriction upon the freedom of our authentic expression; it's a discipline measure; there are ways and ways to express that which you/I/we are here to express.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:58 pm

Yoga means union. There must be some union of your will with everything else in order for it to be "true." Be intelligent. Be responsible. Does your "true will" suggest otherwise?
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby FiatYod » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:53 am

danica wrote:Consider how being sick with the virus, dying, or spreading it around to others to get sick, restricts the Will.
- In this light, the temporary restriction of the outer movements of body comes as a useful, desirable limitation.
I don't see the isolation/quarantine as imposed-from-some-outside restriction upon the freedom of our authentic expression; it's a discipline measure; there are ways and ways to express that which you/I/we are here to express.

Indeed, I agree. But, as I am not aware of every single True Will out there (isn't there just one, actually?) I can't know for sure that there are ways and ways for each and every individual to express their True Will under these circumstances.

Takamba wrote:Yoga means union. There must be some union of your will with everything else in order for it to be "true." Be intelligent. Be responsible. Does your "true will" suggest otherwise?

Mine specifically doesn't, but how can we know that it applies to everyone else?
Doesn't the union of the True Will with everything else contradict the existence of Restriction?
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby FraterTeth » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:56 pm

I think you're confusing True Will with Ego, and physical desire. You cannot practice your True Will, assuming you know what it is, from within the confines of your home? Maybe that's just my perception of True Will. I can't say for certain that I've passed that gate.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:32 am

True will has many meanings and applications. As I see it, first and foremost, true will, so-called Universal true will, is to survive and thrive. I see the human race as a future space-faring race, therefore the universal will to survive and thrive can involve technological innovations and space exploration. But it is only a fantasy, the way I see it, to imagine that it is a predetermined script into the future without potential to fail. The notion of a universal true will that is also a legacy, historical marker of some sort, or dealing with human values in general, is rather silly - so scratch that if you will.

Ask yourself this constantly: does this support my true will, does this threaten my survival or enhance it, distracted, impede it, what provide benefits?

Is it your true will or is it your habit? Is it your will? Or is it an argument? Is it your will? Or is it your resistance? Is it your intention, in line with your intention, promoting the Great Work? Or is it your addiction? These answers must be known.

In Union with your will to survive and thrive, I recommend you join ranks with the Strong.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Hermitas » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:48 am

FiatYod wrote:The lockdown that takes place in many countries today is a Restriction of countless True Wills. It may take months until the world gets back to normal.
I understand its necessity, but what should a Thelemite whose expression of True Will has been restricted do under these circumstances?


I agree with the consensus.

But I'm bored, and it's too early in the morning for wine and strange drugs.

I'm trying to imagine a Will that would actually be restricted during this "lockdown."

I can't, but I may just lack imagination. Can anybody think of anything?
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:51 am

Hermitas wrote:
FiatYod wrote:The lockdown that takes place in many countries today is a Restriction of countless True Wills. It may take months until the world gets back to normal.
I understand its necessity, but what should a Thelemite whose expression of True Will has been restricted do under these circumstances?


I agree with the consensus.

But I'm bored, and it's too early in the morning for wine and strange drugs.

I'm trying to imagine a Will that would actually be restricted during this "lockdown."

I can't, but I may just lack imagination. Can anybody think of anything?



The will to conquer everyone else?
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby FiatYod » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:34 pm

Takamba wrote:True will has many meanings and applications. As I see it, first and foremost, true will, so-called Universal true will, is to survive and thrive. I see the human race as a future space-faring race, therefore the universal will to survive and thrive can involve technological innovations and space exploration. But it is only a fantasy, the way I see it, to imagine that it is a predetermined script into the future without potential to fail. The notion of a universal true will that is also a legacy, historical marker of some sort, or dealing with human values in general, is rather silly - so scratch that if you will.

Ask yourself this constantly: does this support my true will, does this threaten my survival or enhance it, distracted, impede it, what provide benefits?

Is it your true will or is it your habit? Is it your will? Or is it an argument? Is it your will? Or is it your resistance? Is it your intention, in line with your intention, promoting the Great Work? Or is it your addiction? These answers must be known.

In Union with your will to survive and thrive, I recommend you join ranks with the Strong.

What do you mean by "The notion of a universal true will that is also a legacy"?

Hermitas wrote:
FiatYod wrote:The lockdown that takes place in many countries today is a Restriction of countless True Wills. It may take months until the world gets back to normal.
I understand its necessity, but what should a Thelemite whose expression of True Will has been restricted do under these circumstances?


I agree with the consensus.

But I'm bored, and it's too early in the morning for wine and strange drugs.

I'm trying to imagine a Will that would actually be restricted during this "lockdown."

I can't, but I may just lack imagination. Can anybody think of anything?

Well, when you were trying to imagine such a Will, did you assume that everybody has Internet access?
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Hermitas » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:33 pm

Well, when you were trying to imagine such a Will, did you assume that everybody has Internet access?


I’ll tell you my actual thoughts..

We’re free to learn.

True Will, freed from the lust of result... I see no reason why it could not adapt to the current, relatively temporary demands - IF it was free of the lust of result. As such, it could adapt or be patient.

But regardless, we are free. We can claim our rights as long as we are willing to accept the karma and learn from it. But I *would* see it as involving the lust of result - as well as probably someone who didn’t truly yet understand their will.

As I said, we are free to learn.

Those are really all of my thoughts.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:06 am

Universal will that doesn't need to declare the birth of legacy in order to be true. That is, unlike the Old Bay on Dying God order, ego gratification, now and generations to follow, is not required.

That's what I meant.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Mercurius » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:24 pm

i leave for 5 years and come back and yup, conversations are still retarded.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Hermitas » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:04 am

Don’t let the door knob hit you in the ass on the way out.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:23 am

Conversation equals discourse using language between two or more people. Retarded equals slowed down, restricted, stunted, prevented from growing. Unfortunately on this forum, conversations are far from stunted and can tend to grow wildly.

So I don't get it. What are you seeing with your eyes?
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:25 am

Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the law.

Maybe some people like doorknobs in the ass.

Love is the law, love under will.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby seekinghga » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:13 pm

Hermitas wrote:Don’t let the door knob hit you in the ass on the way out.

Or maybe he should do so on his way back in. ;)

(That's an AL I:41 joke.)
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Hermitas » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:07 am

Back to the OP...

You know, all the protests to "reopen the economy" are making me rethink this a little.

It's certainly within one's will to do the necessary things to survive. Am I wrong? And it could be argued further that in our age, making money is how you do that.

The government money didn't actually go to small businesses. They let the banks decide who to give it to, and people like dentists and other truly small businesses got nothing. They don't make the banks as much money, so they didn't get anything. And in the U.S., the $1200 stimulus checks are barely anything if you've got rent and a car note. Things could get hairy.

People aren't going to have what they need to survive if things don't change before too long.

Change anybody's answer?
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:51 am

The idea that it is temporary makes it nolo contendere. " the word of Sin is Restriction," does not mean that all restrictions are sins. The nature of a governor is always to produce restrictions, what's the meaning of the word to govern. We are born with restrictions; we cannot fly without mechanical aid, we cannot travel from place to place until we learn how to motivate ourselves into doing so, we don't drink orange juice through our fingers but instead through our lips and mouth, these are all restrictions. Yoga, which means Union, is filled with necessary restrictions.

These are not sins.

This too shall pass.

If this does not pass, if the restrictions resist being lifted, then Will will reform and remove the resistance. This is for a future time. We can discuss, plan, consider, Etc but it is for another time.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:45 am

Or

On the other side of my thoughts

Do you know someone who has died of covid-19 or do you only know someone who knows someone or do you only know you've been told what you've been told? How does this jive with "believe nothing you don't also prove for yourself? "
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby FiatYod » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:54 pm

Hermitas wrote:People aren't going to have what they need to survive if things don't change before too long.

Change anybody's answer?

So we have to wait and see "if things don't change before too long" in order to make up our minds (and then possibly regret not making up our minds earlier)...

Takamba wrote:" the word of Sin is Restriction," does not mean that all restrictions are sins.

Fascinating!
Sin => Restriction, but not the other way around!
Thank you for the clarification.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Hermitas » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:44 am

FiatYod wrote:
Hermitas wrote:People aren't going to have what they need to survive if things don't change before too long.

Change anybody's answer?

So we have to wait and see "if things don't change before too long" in order to make up our minds (and then possibly regret not making up our minds earlier)...


You mad, bro?

Quit asking questions and speak your mind.

What’s your solution? Any tool can poke holes.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:34 am

Hermitas wrote:
FiatYod wrote:
Hermitas wrote:People aren't going to have what they need to survive if things don't change before too long.

Change anybody's answer?

So we have to wait and see "if things don't change before too long" in order to make up our minds (and then possibly regret not making up our minds earlier)...


You mad, bro?

Quit asking questions and speak your mind.

What’s your solution? Any tool can poke holes.


You just called yourself.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Hermitas » Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:39 am

Ehh...

I’m no expert.

I’m good with what we’re doing, but I can work from home with a relatively stable job even in recessions. Me doing my will usually involves me writing back and forth with people over the Internet anyway.

I do realize that both recovery from illness and maintaining financial security are both survival-level needs.

I’d like to be a good “ruler,” though, as I play my part in the American system.

I look to the human body as an analogy for society. When we get sick, the body shuts down. My body healing itself is a more fundamental priority than me achieving self-actualization.

But we are individuals. So that’s the other side.

That’s my opinion, but I’m willing to change my mind. Remember, I was re-opening the conversation for other perspectives. That’s the part quoted.

The brother here seems to have a passionate opinion, but he won’t come out and state it. I’m interested in it.

So far, I can only assume that it’s going to be something like, “We just need to get on with our business and let a whole bunch of people die.” But I’m waiting to find out.

Otherwise, he’s just griping about other peoples’ opinions without having the courage to state his own - to put his own ideas out there for criticism.

Also, why are you taking up for everybody all of a sudden? These aren’t babies. They came to play. Let them.
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Takamba » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:46 am

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought he did state his position. His position is, " wait and see."
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Re: Coronavirus and Thelema

Postby Hermitas » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:14 am

Maybe.

I read it as kind of indignant and incredulous - sarcastic.

Tone can be really tricky in this format.
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