"kill/fill" - Always two options?

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"kill/fill" - Always two options?

Postby Hermitas » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:14 pm

One of the ways I've organized meaning for myself out of some distinct differences between occult schools involves the idea that there always seem to be two options presented for some ideas.

The Lust/Strength - Adjustment/Justice - 8/11 difference
The Heh - Star/Emperor difference

These are the main two that come to mind. There are others.

Now at the top of the list, we have "kill/fill."

I don't know, I'm just kind of talking it out, but in such differences, there seems to be a dynamic tension kept alive, similar to the two Pillars themselves, or even to Hadit and Nuit.

Personally, I don't like the "kill me" version. This is primarily due to my reading of the Class A designation and my conviction that its intent was to allow only the Adept who wrote a document to make any necessary editorial changes to it.

But as for the possibilities of it... It does open up some possibilities. For someone like me, steeped in years of the sermons of the outer religion's version of Osiris, it makes the bridge between Old Aeon and New Aeon more clear. It does express more continuity between the two than the original version of the Law. I can more easily point to the Law itself and say, "See there, oh Osirian? Your teaching is still there, but there is more as well. It is an evolution and not a mere rejection as you fear. Can you see?"

I like that part of it now, I'll admit.

But I still feel the same way about the Class A designation. It's a breach. It shouldn't have happened according to the official rules of preservation pf the A.'.A.'. tradition.

But it's not one that I have any power to do anything about.

So, I guess I'm filing it in my "two options" file of things that the universe has allowed, with the meaning I give such things - that there seem to constantly be two options in presentation that stand in dynamic tension and keep this or that particular conversation alive in the minds of humanity, allowing for diverse paths and levels of development, without one ever being able to fully conquer the other, forcing people to think beyond the forms given for instruction: "Beyond! Beyond!"

I was concerned it would jack too much with the unity of the Tradition taught by the A.'.A.'., but the more I read, the more I find that unity I'd hoped existed has already been (****) on for years.

So, I tried empassioned persuasion, and I tried dispassionate reasoning, and that's all I can do. So now, there's nothing left to do but get used to the divergence, try to make meaning out of it, and help the others who come along in the future not knowing who to believe (not yet understanding that they shouldn't believe anyone).

Just where I am with it these days...
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Re: "kill/fill" - Always two options?

Postby oldfriend56 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:11 pm

Aegis wrote:One of the ways I've organized meaning for myself out of some distinct differences between occult schools involves the idea that there always seem to be two options presented for some ideas.

The Lust/Strength - Adjustment/Justice - 8/11 difference
The Heh - Star/Emperor difference

These are the main two that come to mind. There are others.

Now at the top of the list, we have "kill/fill."

.


I really appreciate your thinking here, very fresh! I never thought to look at the controversy itself as a reflection of the inherent 'dialectic' of opposites which Liber al does express - however if this is true, then we can also make a prediction off of it. There would need to be something inherent in the problem/solution that would then be a child, synthesis, or reflection of both as a transcendent to both....somewhere. something that is both 'kill/fill' at once.

And that's where I'm stumped :?
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Re: "kill/fill" - Always two options?

Postby Takamba » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:38 pm

oldfriend56 wrote: however if this is true, then we can also make a prediction off of it. There would need to be something inherent in the problem/solution that would then be a child, synthesis, or reflection of both as a transcendent to both....somewhere. something that is both 'kill/fill' at once.

And that's where I'm stumped :?



EFFIN' KILL ME ALREADY!

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Re: "kill/fill" - Always two options?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:26 pm

I think the one poster got it right who said this is exactly apropos to the current transition from the Era of the Emperor to the Era of the Hierophant. Symbolically, we're moving from "kill" to "fill." From that point of view, the entire issue becomes a last ditch push by the "kill" symbolism before it becomes the expired formula in 9 months.
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Re: "kill/fill" - Always two options?

Postby Alrah » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:34 pm

Lol.

I wonder if anyone has checked to see whether the instances of when/where the paraphrase appear in rituals and work corresponding with the time of the year or the wheel of the zodiac? I suggest - 'Fill me' for half a year up to summer solstice, and 'kill me' for the other half up to winter solstice? I haven't checked.. but Liber Legis was written in April and it seems the best time to evoke Bartzabel is probably while the Sun is in Aries. It's probably nothing...
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Re: "kill/fill" - Always two options?

Postby Archaeus » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:58 am

Alrah wrote:Lol.

I wonder if anyone has checked to see whether the instances of when/where the paraphrase appear in rituals and work corresponding with the time of the year or the wheel of the zodiac? I suggest - 'Fill me' for half a year up to summer solstice, and 'kill me' for the other half up to winter solstice? I haven't checked.. but Liber Legis was written in April and it seems the best time to evoke Bartzabel is probably while the Sun is in Aries. It's probably nothing...


How quaintly old Aeon that would be... :wink:
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Re: "kill/fill" - Always two options?

Postby Hermitas » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:21 am

oldfriend56 wrote:
Aegis wrote:One of the ways I've organized meaning for myself out of some distinct differences between occult schools involves the idea that there always seem to be two options presented for some ideas.

The Lust/Strength - Adjustment/Justice - 8/11 difference
The Heh - Star/Emperor difference

These are the main two that come to mind. There are others.

Now at the top of the list, we have "kill/fill."

.


I really appreciate your thinking here, very fresh! I never thought to look at the controversy itself as a reflection of the inherent 'dialectic' of opposites which Liber al does express - however if this is true, then we can also make a prediction off of it. There would need to be something inherent in the problem/solution that would then be a child, synthesis, or reflection of both as a transcendent to both....somewhere. something that is both 'kill/fill' at once.

And that's where I'm stumped :?


The kill/fill question itself would be the child. As long as the difference exists, people will ask how, and why, and who, and when. And they'll learn a thing or two, not only about the Law but also about the order that presents it to them. That's the child in my opinion.
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Re: "kill/fill" - Always two options?

Postby oldfriend56 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:33 pm

Well, in keeping with how I've presented the idea, the antithesis (question) is the universal part. The synthesis (answer) is individually derived through the struggle with the question.


Choose ye well :)
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