The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Q&A and discussion on the world view encapsulating humanity's current stage of evolution

Moderator: Moderators - Public

The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby gerry456 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:06 pm

I don't understand (re AL) how "the consoler" is hated when in fact, consolers have a heart, they have feelings i.e they feel. On the other hand, the miserable don't feel and we are therefore told to let them die in their misery.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
gerry456
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:53 pm
Location: Lancashire England

Re: The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby Takamba » Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:14 pm

You have to see every word in the context it is applied to.

Pity not the fallen! I never knew them. I am not for them. I console not: I hate the consoled & the consoler.


In this case, the argument isn't against consoling but against pity. Search the forums for "pity vs compassion" to see more. Long discussions, simpler principles, I don't see the need to repeat it all.
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
User avatar
Takamba
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1310
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:19 pm

Re: The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby gerry456 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:39 pm

yes good idea.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
gerry456
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:53 pm
Location: Lancashire England

Re: The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:33 am

Console means to soothe.

A buddhist monk in training has just gotten malaria. He is receiving medical care, but the fevers and aches rack his body just the same. Another monk visits and says that she suffered through this situation too, and that she believes he will get through it, 100%.

A woman is crying because she just received some sad news, and her husband rushes over to give her a hug and dry her tears. Then he tells her a joke that always cheers her up. She stops crying and feels better.

Which scenario is more self-serving for the comforter? Which is more compassionate? Which embraces the reality of emotions and suffering more freely? Which honors the divinity and strength in each of us more?
טהרה אלמד
User avatar
Avshalom Binyamin
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1277
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:28 am

Re: The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby Hermitas » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:08 am

Well, definition granted, but in context, it's the consoler of the fallen, the one who lost.

No. Master!

I don't think it means all forms of comforting those we love. I'll bring her the Advil if she feels that bad. I don't think we're talking about that kind of compassion.

More and more, I think of it in terms of prying oneself free of those who would have you diverted from your Will out of some call for compassion for others. Here, it says, no, don't be slave to this. Do your Will.

Other than that, I really don't see the use of all the contortions around the definition of compassion. Are they trying to use it to divert you from your Will? That.
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

Re: The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby Hermitas » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:16 am

Try this one on...

Without true Compassion, there is no true Will.

Love is the Law. Love under Will.

Love, but conscious and directed, unassuaged.
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

Re: The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:49 am

Sure, my little stories are a little false-dichotomous. But so is the idea of winners and losers. The lie that we are separate makes us think in those terms, when the wheel of fortune makes losers and winners out of us whenever it happens to be our turn. And further, we aren't the winner or the loser, that's just a perspective. We're the whole thing. We just experience winning or losing at one point in time or another.

Consolation seems to me to be something in service of a lie. It sends a message to me that we shouldn't experience this feeling. Or that we shouldn't be in this situation. Yes, of course, I comfort my daughter when she is hurting. But I try to do it in a way that I'm helping her witness her own experience by witnessing it with her. I'm not against pain medication, but I don't want the default to be to try to avoid a painful experience just for the sake of avoiding pain at all costs, always.
טהרה אלמד
User avatar
Avshalom Binyamin
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1277
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:28 am

Re: The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby Hermitas » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:59 pm

[like]

Image
Hermitas
Nothing
Nothing
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 am

Re: The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby Mephisto » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:04 pm

Takamba wrote:You have to see every word in the context it is applied to.

Pity not the fallen! I never knew them. I am not for them. I console not: I hate the consoled & the consoler.


In this case, the argument isn't against consoling but against pity. Search the forums for "pity vs compassion" to see more. Long discussions, simpler principles, I don't see the need to repeat it all.


To add to this:

Usually, when one is consoling another human being it involves distracting or averting that human being from the issue at hand. There is absolutely no point to consolation of this kind as it would be more fitting to accept the situation as it stands without recourse to blind emotions. In effect: consolation detracts from our ability to see and accept the realities of situations. The same goes for pity. Consolation is applied pity.
Konx Om Pax
User avatar
Mephisto
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: The consoler has feelings and i hate him?

Postby gerry456 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:56 am

I think I know what you mean. For example an obese person tells you they need to go on a diet and you tell them that they are not fat and there's nothing to worry about. Is this what you mean? I guess you're feeding them (pun unintended) with "fancy ideas about themselves" so pushing them from True Will? Likewise if I was to say that I need to improve my knowledge of physics and you say "yeah YOU, no danger, you'll be a professor of physics one day" then again this is feeding a falseness.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
gerry456
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:53 pm
Location: Lancashire England


Return to Thelema

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests