Yet there are masked ones my servants

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Yet there are masked ones my servants

Postby gerry456 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:56 pm

2 58 :Yet there are masked ones my servants

I have always read this as the Thelemite reader being addressed as "my servants" not as the masked ones are the servants.

Otherwise it would've been "there are masked ones who are my servants also".

What about you?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Yet there are masked ones my servants

Postby Takamba » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:42 pm

If it were to read "there are masked ones, my servants,..." then I would agree with you. I read it as "there are masked ones [who are] my servants: it may be that yonder beggar is a King." I take this entire section of the chapter, from verse 53 to the end of it, as directed specifically at Crowley. It is at that verse when Hadit stops speaking of the "I" that is He and addresses "o my prophet." The line you address is telling Crowley that Hadit's "servants" (for the purpose of the Prophet's success) can end up being anyone if appearance is what is measured.

[edit]
If you wish to take those verses as personally addressed to you (the reader), then recognize that it is probably saying that in your life there will be many who will be the servants of Hadit's methods with you, whether you recognize them or not.
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Re: Yet there are masked ones my servants

Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:10 pm

I read it as an appositive.

All kings are Hadit's servants.
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Re: Yet there are masked ones my servants

Postby gerry456 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:48 am

Thanks, I'll take all that into consideration.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Yet there are masked ones my servants

Postby Luce » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:06 pm

Yes, grammatically there would need to be a comma if it were addressing the servants. So the sentence has to be identifying the masked ones as servants.

"Let's eat, Grandma."

"Let's eat Grandma."
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Re: Yet there are masked ones my servants

Postby seekinghga » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:20 am

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Luce wrote:Yes, grammatically there would need to be a comma if it were addressing the servants. So the sentence has to be identifying the masked ones as servants.

"Let's eat, Grandma."

"Let's eat Grandma."

Not trying to be an ass but there could be a comma inserted there if one had reason to do so. A few verses back from this one Hadit says:

"The stops as thou wilt; the letters? change them not in style or value!" - AL II:54

WARNING! THE FOLLOWING IS FALSE!!

[FALSE] To me this verse resonates with AL I:3 and appears to be in reference to the Stars who recognize their Kingship, which "lies dormant" [god that's cliché and corny] in every person. Preceding the section of this verse you asked about, gerry456, Hadit mentions that "There is none that shall be cast down or lifted up: all is as ever it was." The King and beggar part at the end of this verse is one of my favorite quotes from the book as well.
[/FALSITY]

Of course these personal interpretations of Liber Legis often lead to schism, sectarianism, and/or mental masturbation. Whatever furthers your way in the Great Work is probably the best interpretation at any given time. At least that's my opinion. :)

Love is the law, love under will.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Yet there are masked ones my servants

Postby gerry456 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:34 am

Y'know the "Avast, me hearties!" sort of thing a pirate would've said (we are told)? Well, the "there are masked ones my servants" would tally with that due to the comma.

No, on the contrary this is not mental masturbation as Aristotle held the science of grammar in as much esteem as he did astronomy, geometry, rhetoric, logic and so on.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Yet there are masked ones my servants

Postby Luce » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:22 pm

Not trying to be an ass but there could be a comma inserted there if one had reason to do so. A few verses back from this one Hadit says:

"The stops as thou wilt; the letters? change them not in style or value!" - AL II:54


Really not sure what you're getting at here. Are you saying you might add a comma here to intentionally change the meaning of the sentence? Do you do that with other parts of Liber Legis to intentionally corrupt it's meaning? I could do a hell of a lot of damage to the text if I added a few well-placed commas (I can give examples if you want). Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

There could be a comma, but there isn't. If there were a comma, there could be debate over whether it's an appositive or if it's in the vocative case (as Gerry originally thought). But there's no comma so there's no ambiguity: the masked ones are the servants. This is not personal interpretation: it's grammar, because the vocative case must be preceded by a comma.
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Re: Yet there are masked ones my servants

Postby seekinghga » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:42 am

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Luce wrote: I could do a hell of a lot of damage to the text if I added a few well-placed commas (I can give examples if you want). Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

Will that "further you in the Great Work"? If so, do it unto the ages!! ;) That's my opinion and that's what I said before and that's worth nothing. If one is Restricted by grammar, how will they ever overcome the Restriction of their own Ego? Liber AL is like an instruction manual for free-flowing Will. If it can not give needed Instruction at any given juncture, that would make it a pretty shitty Manual. Anon, anon, c'est la vie. "Coming through ordeals" may be the attainment of states-of-perspective. Maybe.

Love is the law, love under will.

PS
Who cares what I say? That's the point. Get unattached to opinion. May it become like little zephyrs floating by and not molesting your attention unwanted. :P

" thy Mind, whose rule is Necessity rather than Prejudice."
- Aleister Crowley, "Liber Aleph"

PPS
It's in your forum signature, gerry.

PPPS
And yes, Crowley's use of Capitalization in "Liber Aleph" IS Addicting!!
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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