How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

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How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby [V] » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:13 pm

I was listening to a podcast by Lon Milo, and I was really surprised to hear that he had his experience in his 70's.
If this already happened to you, how old were you?
EDIT: He must have been around 65 when it happened
(Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M0FOaAzqWI)

And a question regarding the AA, how frequently do people who make it past the neophyte grade reach K&C of the HGA in their lifetime?
Last edited by [V] on Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby seekinghga » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:42 pm

How old was that "I"? In the next few weeks there is going to be a huge release to give up all. That's at all times the plan.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Mercurius » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:56 pm

i was 23.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby danica » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:32 pm

[V] wrote:I was listening to a podcast by Lon Milo, and I was really surprised to hear that he had his experience in his 70's.


Lon is 68 now, according to Wikipedia.
"Write, & find ecstasy in writing! Work, & be our bed in working! Thrill with the joy of life & death! Ah! thy death shall be lovely: whoso seeth it shall be glad. Thy death shall be the seal of the promise of our age long love. Come! lift up thine heart & rejoice! We are one; we are none."
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Takamba » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:20 am

danica wrote:
[V] wrote:I was listening to a podcast by Lon Milo, and I was really surprised to hear that he had his experience in his 70's.


Lon is 68 now, according to Wikipedia.


Perhaps it was meant "the mid 70s," ie 1976 perhaps?
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby [V] » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:35 am

Takamba wrote:
danica wrote:
[V] wrote:I was listening to a podcast by Lon Milo, and I was really surprised to hear that he had his experience in his 70's.


Lon is 68 now, according to Wikipedia.


Perhaps it was meant "the mid 70s," ie 1976 perhaps?


My mistake. I think he must have been around 65 when it happened. In this interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M0FOaAzqWI) he describes the experience towards the end in avid detail. He said it happened only 3 years ago. Given that this video was in 2016, he must have been around 65 when it went down.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Barrackubus » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:38 pm

It was during my marriage. I was married at age 32. A few years after that I started meditating after a few years of what I now know or understand as the middle pillar exercise the life changing event of KCHGA occurred , so I would say it was around 34 to 35 or sso I'm 46 now.
Also during that time I didn't know anything about no grades or anything Thelema.

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It should never be forgotten for a single moment that the central and essential work of the Magician is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Once he has achieved this he must of course be left entirely in the hands of that Angel, who can be invariably and inevitably relied upon to lead him to the further great step—crossing of the Abyss and the attainment of the grade of Master of the Temple. (Magick Without Tears, Ch.83)

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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby gerry456 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:56 am

Barrackubus wrote:It was during my marriage. I was married at age 32. A few years after that I started meditating after a few years of what I now know or understand as the middle pillar exercise the life changing event of KCHGA occurred , so I would say it was around 34 to 35 or sso I'm 46 now.
Also during that time I didn't know anything about no grades or anything Thelema.

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What was it? Knowledge of course but"conversation" a la Jean D'Arc?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby gerry456 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:05 am

The knowledge and conversation of the HGA is said to be the end result of arduous enflamed prayer to that end usually 6 months of practically dropping out from society?

How do you know did it right?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby gerry456 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:11 am

Also if I may ask the folk who attained. How is your knowledge and conversation of the HGA experience different to a new ager who ask his entities for practical solutions to his problems?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Barrackubus » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:42 am

gerry456 wrote:The knowledge and conversation of the HGA is said to be the end result of arduous enflamed prayer to that end usually 6 months of practically dropping out from society?

How do you know did it right?


It may and probably does require oodles of alone time. But it may be better also seen as what it is or what is being done during those times or that one is alone. But in fairness the length of time to attain may be different for all. It also maybe more significant to some in it maybe more beneficial towards attainment in consideration of the length of time one may need to reconcile all the polarities within the aspects of our individual lives up to the moment we are now at in order to seek attainment. And this is the process that to myself might take the length of time needed. While going through this gate one might subject to reconsider things forgotten, remembered or believed for what ever reasons that they themselves may have thought to be right or correct only to find it not to be as thought was.
Undoing all that mental, environmental and any kind of "programming" can be a long and grueling process my strongest and most intimate advice to be honest and fair with every aspect and perception you may encounter within the grasps of yourself.


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It should never be forgotten for a single moment that the central and essential work of the Magician is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Once he has achieved this he must of course be left entirely in the hands of that Angel, who can be invariably and inevitably relied upon to lead him to the further great step—crossing of the Abyss and the attainment of the grade of Master of the Temple. (Magick Without Tears, Ch.83)

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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Saeptus » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:10 am

Meditation.
"People who say the most, know the least" has always served me well. But if you do like to talk, misleading people either intentionally or unintentionally can usually be a learning experience for both parties.

I was 25 when my head met the guillotine.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby gerry456 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:20 am

So you guys who have attained to KACHGA must be happy commanding Goetic spirits?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Barrackubus » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:42 pm

As was said at the opening of the second chapter, the Single Supreme Ritual is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. It is the raising of the complete man in a vertical straight line...Any other operation is black magic...If the magician needs to perform any other operation than this, it is only lawful in so far as it is a necessary preliminary to That One Work.


gerry456 wrote:Also if I may ask the folk who attained. How is your knowledge and conversation of the HGA experience different to a new ager who ask his entities for practical solutions to his problems?



Sorry but the Crowley quote kind of pasted in the wrong spot. But case in point what makes us different from any other is the vitalness of the knowledge in being exclusive. There is no other doctrine similiar, the Angel isnt just some conjured energy.
i remember it was soon after my first visit. And the first thing said. Im not sure if it was more understood realized or just autonomely just understood. The impacted me so much i wrote just three words down and taped them to the mirror. Although completely understood both mathematically and scientifically. I spent days meditating on those words mingling them with liberal love and just remembering the warmth and intimacy of how it just made all of me come alive, it was as if i had been infused internally.
But these words were key to all and i assimulated them over and over again.
Cause and effect.
Three simple words but they sent forth a cataclysmic internal combustion change that started to understand every motion, word and thought from henceforth on. Speak on the things i want to bring about always. Never go backwards always forward. Seeing cause and effect from that perception even just as glimpse was equally intimate.


Crowley said that we would have an affinity with other groups there wjll be some things that we would have in common with them, i think one example was nature. But tje coraltion of magick in relation to magick and is severly comjoined. It may that be thosr others i see may not adhere to such doctrine are black magicians.
but one may ask doesnt doctrine require dogma? Are we guilty of such a thing as dogma. But it is as if maybe we may see something others may not. In knowing we have a history full of witnesses to the same through out recorded history, testimony of this Angelic being.

To understand the Angel is might to try to understand who He was and is to others.
It should never be forgotten for a single moment that the central and essential work of the Magician is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Once he has achieved this he must of course be left entirely in the hands of that Angel, who can be invariably and inevitably relied upon to lead him to the further great step—crossing of the Abyss and the attainment of the grade of Master of the Temple. (Magick Without Tears, Ch.83)

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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby gerry456 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:44 am

Surely you need a hellova lot of experience in angelic communication and euphoric invocation of angels and gods before you hope to invoke your ultimate god, your HGA?

I mean I just don't think it's happened to me.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Barrackubus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:47 am

gerry456 wrote:Surely you need a hellova lot of experience in angelic communication and euphoric invocation of angels and gods before you hope to invoke your ultimate god, your HGA?

I mean I just don't think it's happened to me.



Maybe not so, the HGA has been the only Person that I have relationship with, and have ever had.
It should never be forgotten for a single moment that the central and essential work of the Magician is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Once he has achieved this he must of course be left entirely in the hands of that Angel, who can be invariably and inevitably relied upon to lead him to the further great step—crossing of the Abyss and the attainment of the grade of Master of the Temple. (Magick Without Tears, Ch.83)

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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby gerry456 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:49 am

According to Dr Shoemaker it doesn't look likely unless you have extensive pranayama asana experience. Crowley devised the system, well, you've all seen Liber E and Liber O, I presume. You've seen the way the grade exercises work, jugorum, astral rising on the planes, bhakti exercises, mastery of dharana and only then.....HGA.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Barrackubus » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:15 am

gerry456 wrote:According to Dr Shoemaker it doesn't look likely unless you have extensive pranayama asana experience. Crowley devised the system, well, you've all seen Liber E and Liber O, I presume. You've seen the way the grade exercises work, jugorum, astral rising on the planes, bhakti exercises, mastery of dharana and only then.....HGA.



Absolutely correct.....i posted earlier about my difficult marriage....it was during that time one of which i am completely thankful for, the spiritual awakening that occured has been similiar to being "born anew." because of the these described activities all by accident and only because it seemed natural. Having extened periods of alone time is vital to the process but the length of time may be different for all. Months is accurate.
It should never be forgotten for a single moment that the central and essential work of the Magician is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Once he has achieved this he must of course be left entirely in the hands of that Angel, who can be invariably and inevitably relied upon to lead him to the further great step—crossing of the Abyss and the attainment of the grade of Master of the Temple. (Magick Without Tears, Ch.83)

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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Gnosomai Emauton » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:26 pm

According to Malcolm Gladwell, it takes the average person 10,000 hours of practice to become world-class in a field. Mozart managed that on piano at 7 years old. A man born without hands might not ever manage it, regardless of his level of determination.

Attempting to fit an individual's achievement of K&C into a temporal box, or trying to define it based on the method two men devised to assist people of a certain temperament to achieve it, might not be the most useful of tactics.
Go in all ways contrary to the world.
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Re: How old were you when you had K&C of the HGA?

Postby Barrackubus » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:36 pm

We can also take comfort, and I say this with love. Slow your mind down. A most excellent prescription for all. Every thing from A to Z. Is found in one sentence in Magick.
Crowley wrote. And I believe in capital letters.
MEDITATION IS THE WAY OF ATTAINMENT.

Also equally comforting he told us, that there are no precise where by a man obtain the knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel.

But the one thing every one may seem to do or might be able to do is Meditate.
It should never be forgotten for a single moment that the central and essential work of the Magician is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Once he has achieved this he must of course be left entirely in the hands of that Angel, who can be invariably and inevitably relied upon to lead him to the further great step—crossing of the Abyss and the attainment of the grade of Master of the Temple. (Magick Without Tears, Ch.83)

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