Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

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Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:18 am

Why the assumption?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby oldfriend56 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:53 pm

I'm not sure who says it, but the "meme magick" phenomenon is (to me) definitely a new aeon artifact, I'm sure Crowley would have loved it. after all it's just chaos magick.

My understanding is the KEK originally is one of four Egyptian creation gods, and I don't think they are directly applicable to the thelemic trilogy.

I don't think there is anything more special to KEK than there is BOB (Church of the SubGenius) or ERIS (Principia Discordia), other than the later had a much better sense of humor, insight, and lots more heart.

There is a field around the KEK meme.

Don't fall for it :)
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:31 am

oldfriend56 wrote:I'
My understanding is the KEK originally is one of four Egyptian creation gods, and I don't think they are directly applicable to the thelemic trilogy.

I :)


I get it, I though all of the Egyptian gods are relevant to Thelema because the three holy book chapters are dictated by some of them therefore the whole pantheon is inherently valid. You raise a good point, why are they valid?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby seekinghga » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:05 pm

gerry456 wrote:I though all of the Egyptian gods are relevant to Thelema because the three holy book chapters are dictated by some of them

That thesis can carry weight up until Chesed. Then where does it go, gerry?
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby Gnosomai Emauton » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:13 pm

gerry456 wrote:I get it, I though all of the Egyptian gods are relevant to Thelema because the three holy book chapters are dictated by some of them therefore the whole pantheon is inherently valid.


What do you mean by "therefore the whole pantheon is inherently valid"? Valid for what? And why does the visual representation of three of the Thelemic Gods taken from an ancient stele necessarily validate the religion under which that stele was created, especially considering that the Thelemic personification of these Gods bears little to no correlation to the Khemite Gods that originally inspired the image?
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:30 am

seekinghga wrote:
gerry456 wrote:
That thesis can carry weight up until Chesed. Then where does it go, gerry?


up to Chesed? You mean the grade system identificationsof attainment?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:39 am

Gnosomai Emauton wrote:What do you mean by "therefore the whole pantheon is inherently valid"? Valid for what?


Any god from a pantheon is not inherently isolated from the other gods in that pantheon is it?

Gnosomai Emauton wrote:And why does the visual representation of three of the Thelemic Gods taken from an ancient stele necessarily validate the religion under which that stele was created,


As above ie. what I wrote above.

Gnosomai Emauton wrote:especially considering that the Thelemic personification of these Gods bears little to no correlation to the Khemite Gods that originally inspired the image?


No correlation? Where and what are the differences?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:25 am

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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:29 pm

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:Every man and every woman is a star.


Thankyou. Is that relevant?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:26 am

Gnosomai Emauton wrote:[
What do you mean by "therefore the whole pantheon is inherently valid"? Valid for what? And why does the visual representation of three of the Thelemic Gods taken from an ancient stele necessarily validate the religion under which that stele was created, especially considering that the Thelemic personification of these Gods bears little to no correlation to the Khemite Gods that originally inspired the image?


pantheon
/ˈpanθɪən/

noun

noun: pantheon; plural noun: pantheons

1.
all the gods of a people or religion collectively.
"the deities of the Hindu pantheon"
•(especially in ancient Greece and Rome) a temple dedicated to all the gods.
2.
a group of famous or important people.
"the pantheon of the all-time greats"


The word "god" therefore, y'know in the polytheistic context, is a jigsaw. Have you ever seen a jigsaw that consisted of one or two or three pieces?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:38 pm

gerry456 wrote:
Avshalom Binyamin wrote:Every man and every woman is a star.


Thankyou. Is that relevant?

Yes. Kek is a symbol of white supremacy.

Nu, Hadit, and Horus, in the context of this forum, are Thelemic deities. They are not ancient Egyptian deities.

Kek is not a Thelemic deity. In a contemporary context, Kek is incompatible with some of the basic, core principles of Thelema. In the context of ancient Egypt, Kek is about as relevant to Thelema as any other dead frog.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby seekinghga » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:05 pm

gerry456 wrote:up to Chesed? You mean the grade system identificationsof attainment?

No, I mean Chesed as in limitation; the closest to the summit that the mind can hope to reach. Picture a square-shaped circle. You can not do it. This is indicative of the limitations of the the human mind. It illustrates how deeply rooted our mind's attachment to concepts is, the roots having been sown and nurtured since birth. Reason cannot pierce beyond Chesed for Reason is fed by the Abyss; i.e. the "substance" of the Abyss is the vehicle of Reason. (Compare the meaning of reason to the idea of Demiurge.) Reason is valuable only in so far as it is constantly kept in perspective, which is accomplished by abiding in Silence or Light or Equilibrium or whatever other half-true description it pleases anyone to label it with (it's called K&CotHGA in the Thelemic vernacular).

How does this relate to your post? You said that the Egyptian gods are relevant to Thelema and I am saying that that is a concept and a quite incorrect one, even as concepts go. ;)

Dig this:
Avshalom Binyamin wrote:Nu, Hadit, and Horus, in the context of this forum, are Thelemic deities. They are not ancient Egyptian deities.


In addition to the quote above, gerry, the Thelemic deities borrow from the Egyptian ones for many aspects of their symbolism, but do not forget that such symbolism exists solely within the Reason and can but only point to that which requires a "different" way of seeing things to fully grasp.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby Gnosomai Emauton » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:23 pm

gerry456 wrote:pantheon
/ˈpanθɪən/...
Yes, I know what the word pantheon means. My question to you was: "Valid for what?"

gerry456 wrote:No correlation? Where and what are the differences?
The gods painted on the stele 2700 years ago are:

Nut = The sky goddess. Lover of Geb (the earth) her husband/brother/complement. Daughter of Shu & Tefnut, granddaughter of Atum.
Behedeti = The Winged Sun. Avatar of Horus. Symbol of royalty and power.
Ra-Horakhty = Ra who is Horus of the Two Horizons (i.e., the Sun as it travels from sunrise to sunset)

The gods as interpreted by Aleister Crowley are:

Nuit = The continuous one of heaven. The context of all that is. The co-creator of existence as lover and equal of her Lord Hadit.
Hadit = The unseen and all-seeing point. The observer of all that is. The co-creator of existence as lover and equal of his Lady Nuit.
Ra-Hoor-Khuit = A God of War and Vengeance. An avatar of Horus as the ever-borning Child of Nuit & Hadit's infinite embrace (i.e. HGA). Twin of Hoor-Paar-Kraat and half of HeruRaHa.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:11 pm

I get it so AC has taken those deity-ideas and warped their definition for his own purpose?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby Gnosomai Emauton » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:11 pm

That's not how I would characterize it.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby seekinghga » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:28 pm

Gnosomai Emauton wrote:That's not how I would characterize it.

Well, that simply won't make matters better. Gnosomai Emauton, you have some 'splainin' to do!
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:46 am

seekinghga wrote:
Gnosomai Emauton wrote:That's not how I would characterize it.

Well, that simply won't make matters better. Gnosomai Emauton, you have some 'splainin' to do!


The anticipation is too much :|
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby seekinghga » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:12 pm

gerry456 wrote:The anticipation is too much :|

:D
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby Gnosomai Emauton » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:18 pm

seekinghga wrote:Well, that simply won't make matters better. Gnosomai Emauton, you have some 'splainin' to do!

Of what?
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:02 am

Gnosomai Emauton wrote:
seekinghga wrote:Well, that simply won't make matters better. Gnosomai Emauton, you have some 'splainin' to do!

Of what?


Presumably you disputed my I get it so AC has taken those deity-ideas and warped their definition for his own purpose? line.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby Gnosomai Emauton » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:24 am

Best not to presume, then. It's really not possible for me to dispute anything since you still haven't clarified what you think all this is "valid" for or why you felt it important to raise these questions in the first place. The stream of one-line questions without any sort of actual thinking on the issues you purport to be interested in, thus far, signals nothing deeper than your standard internet fishing expedition. Trolling for KEK, as it were.

I simply didn't want your words to be interpreted as anything close what I would say on that tangent.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:40 am

Gnosomai Emauton wrote:Best not to presume, then. It's really not possible for me to dispute anything since you still haven't clarified what you think all this is "valid" for or why you felt it important to raise these questions in the first place. The stream of one-line questions without any sort of actual thinking on the issues you purport to be interested in, thus far, signals nothing deeper than your standard internet fishing expedition. Trolling for KEK, as it were.

I simply didn't want your words to be interpreted as anything close what I would say on that tangent.


Paranoid much?

I thought Crowley was using genuine Egyptian dieties.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby seekinghga » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:08 am

"I am alone: there is no God where I am."
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby gerry456 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:37 pm

seekinghga wrote:"I am alone: there is no God where I am."


What about angels and spirits? Any of them there?
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Who says that KEK is against Nu Hadit and Horus?

Postby Takamba » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:24 am

gerry456 wrote:
seekinghga wrote:"I am alone: there is no God where I am."


What about angels and spirits? Any of them there?


"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."

ponder that.
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