Domesticated animals

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Domesticated animals

Postby FiatYod » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:25 pm

Every man and every woman is a star, and since everything should move in accordance with "Do what thou wilt" (or so I think I've read in Magick Without Tears), animals are also some kind of stars, with their own orbit, i.e. True Will.
So, is domestication not Restriction? Doesn't it make animals go against their True Wills?

Thanks!
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Re: Domesticated animals

Postby Frater AOV » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:33 pm

93

Correct

There’s basically a whole chapter on this in Liber Aleph

But also “There is no god but man”. So it’s kind of apples to oranges
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Re: Domesticated animals

Postby FiatYod » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:49 pm

Frater AOV wrote:93

Correct

There’s basically a whole chapter on this in Liber Aleph

But also “There is no god but man”. So it’s kind of apples to oranges

Thank you! Which chapter in Liber Aleph is that?
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Re: Domesticated animals

Postby Takamba » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:29 am

for what it's worth

i don't need an appeal to authority to answer this question to my own satisfaction

all things have an orbit. moon, stars, parking meters, coffee mugs, dogs, cats, cows, lions and tigers and bears and oh my!

but some wills are seeming enslavement when contrasted with other wills. To try to make a dog give milk for the cheese factory would be completely against nature!

I also believe that domestication increases the conscious development of animals. The closer their contact to human society, the closer they are allowed into this societies most hallowed halls, the more sapient they become (here we can have a chicken and egg debate if you like, but I already know my answers).

These claims I make I make only from my own experiences and learning. I'm sure there's a chapter for it somewhere, and I won't be surprised when I find a book sometime in the future by an animal husbandry type psychologist type writer that says the same thing but in different words.

or at least, that's my take on it.
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Re: Domesticated animals

Postby FiatYod » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:29 am

Takamba wrote:for what it's worth

i don't need an appeal to authority to answer this question to my own satisfaction

all things have an orbit. moon, stars, parking meters, coffee mugs, dogs, cats, cows, lions and tigers and bears and oh my!

but some wills are seeming enslavement when contrasted with other wills. To try to make a dog give milk for the cheese factory would be completely against nature!

I also believe that domestication increases the conscious development of animals. The closer their contact to human society, the closer they are allowed into this societies most hallowed halls, the more sapient they become (here we can have a chicken and egg debate if you like, but I already know my answers).

These claims I make I make only from my own experiences and learning. I'm sure there's a chapter for it somewhere, and I won't be surprised when I find a book sometime in the future by an animal husbandry type psychologist type writer that says the same thing but in different words.

or at least, that's my take on it.

Interesting. And regarding the influence on their sapience: are all animals Willing to become as sapient as possible?
So, as I now see it, domestication may or may not be against an animal's True Will. It's hard to tell whether a specific animal's True Will can't be done when domesticated. Though I guess there may be some indicators for that, such as extreme differences in its mood when it's at home compared to when it roams free in the wild.
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Re: Domesticated animals

Postby Takamba » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:53 am

FiatYod wrote:Interesting. And regarding the influence on their sapience: are all animals Willing to become as sapient as possible?
So, as I now see it, domestication may or may not be against an animal's True Will. It's hard to tell whether a specific animal's True Will can't be done when domesticated. Though I guess there may be some indicators for that, such as extreme differences in its mood when it's at home compared to when it roams free in the wild.


My concept involves the expansion of consciousness the animal experiences; firstly through contact with humans and awareness of tool capability. Then the introduction to words. Depending on the specific animal, the involvement of partnership evolves with the life of the animal in connection to humans - a draft, a pet, a food source. On the other hand, the volatile "will" of the body of the animal at times will seem to conflict with the will of humans during this domestication. This is a lesson for the yogi to observe!

Here we look at the level of domestication. The herd is only "domesticated" in name; they are still left very much in their own nature. The dog and cat, on the other hand, become quite communicative. Neighborhood vermin such as squirrel and rabbit and such become more and more like domestic animals the more they have involvement with humans. As the cat once did in ancient Egypt, I see other mammals beginning the self-domestication processes in various suburban places. I think of it like the hundredth monkey. It appears to me over time that all animal species, like humans, are increasing in conscious awareness. The Rosicrucians allegedly even gave the mineral kingdom a sense of sentience of its own type, up to the vegetable, the animal, and the human kingdoms via reincarnating evolution. So maybe it's something related to that.
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Re: Domesticated animals

Postby Frater AOV » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:24 pm

93

Takamba wrote:The Rosicrucians allegedly even gave the mineral kingdom a sense of sentience of its own type, up to the vegetable, the animal, and the human kingdoms via reincarnating evolution. So maybe it's something related to that.


If I'm not mistaken Blavatsky touches on that as well
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Re: Domesticated animals

Postby FiatYod » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:32 pm

Frater AOV wrote:93

Takamba wrote:The Rosicrucians allegedly even gave the mineral kingdom a sense of sentience of its own type, up to the vegetable, the animal, and the human kingdoms via reincarnating evolution. So maybe it's something related to that.


If I'm not mistaken Blavatsky touches on that as well

I was just about to say that I missed the reference - what exactly did the Rosicrucians do in order to enable that? Where does Blavatsky touch on that?
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Re: Domesticated animals

Postby Takamba » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:38 am

I'm not sure I understand the question. It's simply a touchstone of the philosophy (or theosophy) behind reincarnation and expressing ALL the experiences available in the universe. Allegedly it is presumed that all the evidence supporting reincarnation also supports the notion that this reincarnation takes place via each "kingdom" (mineral, vegetable, animal (including I suppose striations of "higher animal" vs "lower animal" and so-forth), bodsitva I suppose would or could be next, Buddhahood maybe, prater-human alien transient secret chief maybe, deity maybe and on and on....

The Theosophists posit really strong arguments supporting a thesis of reincarnation as fundamental to their belief system, the teachings of the Rosicrucian's also tend to assume this very strongly. That's all I can say about it.
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