Question on Liber L

Q&A and discussion on the world view encapsulating humanity's current stage of evolution

Moderator: Moderators - Public

Re: Question on Liber L

Postby Oliver P » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:38 pm

Aum418 wrote:
Oliver P wrote:Parenthetically, I've just noticed that there is a curious "omission" [?] in Liber Oz

"Man has the right to think what he will:
to speak what he will:
to write what he will:
to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will:
to dress as he will."

The word "read" - or generalisations such as "receive information", included now in many nations' statements of basic rights - does not occur in Liber Oz. Is there a reason?

Most if not all o the language of Liber OZ is about active things - reading is somewhat passive ('receiving information'). Thats my guess.


That struck me too, a while after I posted.

However, in the jurisdiction where I currently live, New Zealand Bill of Rights Act refers to: ...the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information..." [my emphasis]

"Seek" is more active. I'm surprised AC didn't include it, or a synonym.

User avatar
Oliver P
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:09 am
Location: Wellington New Zealand

Postby gmugmble » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:47 am

Perhaps because "read" is akin to "study", and according to the notorious Tunis comment, the study of L. L. is forbidden. :)

PS. Please note tongue in cheek.
User avatar
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Everett, WA, USA

Postby Aum418 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:56 am

gmugmble wrote:Perhaps because "read" is akin to "study", and according to the notorious Tunis comment, the study of L. L. is forbidden. :)

PS. Please note tongue in cheek.

That is dumb.

.: Blog: :.

* The Journal of Thelemic Studies: *
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Ultimate Spark of the Intimate Fire
Posts: 597
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:21 pm

Postby Froclown » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:31 pm

"The theory is that every man and every woman has each definite attributes whose tendency, considered in due relation to environment, indicate a proper course of action in each case. To pursue this course of action is to do one's true will." (confessions pg 400)
Possible Troll
Possible Troll
Posts: 738
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Illinois

Postby Scarecrow » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:42 pm

Great quote find Froclown!

Interesting that he uses tendency and "everytime" (a proper course of action in each case) in the same sentence.

Also I like that he blatantaly states it's a theory.

Furthermore I note that it's the pursuit of this course of action and not the fulfilling of this course of action that designates it as TW... though I wonder if I'm being too word compulsive and he means the one and the same.

Anyway, good find - more to think about.
User avatar
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:12 pm

Best pharmacy shop

Postby DELETED » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:36 pm


Re: Question on Liber L

Postby nigris » Fri May 17, 2013 2:13 pm

DavidH wrote:...Liber L states that each star is an agregate of experiences, and that eventually, when each star has all experiences then the consciousness is the same as all others.... How can all experience be lawful if certain things are not. For example, killing a person is an experience, yet it is against Thelema to deprive another of their will. So, in order to get all experience, we must break our own laws?
these aren't doctrinal requirements, but stipulated ideas which some of the Thelemic subculture finds useful or accurate.

the idea is one with respect to 'orbit of (true) will' and it is supposed that this cannot be intruded upon, obviated, or in some other way encroached.

this is a type of cosmic order belief, descending, it seems to me, from the 'Will of God' notions popular amongst Christians who maintain that their divinity is in a position of control and manages all things like a grand hierarch. some Thelemic religious believe that such an ordinal system is at work discerning and making it impossible for 'individual true wills' to come into conflict. they will operate from this premise as an AXIOM but not always understand how to go about determinations of conflict due to their unfamiliarity with the instructions.

to see how the Beast tries to resolve it, see his "Magick (in Theory and Practice; Part Three of Book Four)" writings on the true will of Napoleon. it is my opinion that all of this is faith-based, projected, and unfounded. true will notions function as manipulation tools ("That is not your True Will!"), license for excuse ("It is not my True Will do to that!"), and kernels for motivation ("I am discovering that it is my True Will to achieve this!").
nigris, fr., 333
User avatar
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:12 am


Return to Thelema

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests