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Q&A and discussion on the world view encapsulating humanity's current stage of evolution

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Postby __THE_HERMIT__ » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:08 pm

I

Jim Eshelman wrote:And yes, there's no doubt that AC came to regard the name as El. I simply don't agree, because I don't grant him the right to rewrite Liber Legis after the fact any more than the Book itself did.

There is one other option, Jim you believe yourself to be "The Child" or maybe that falls under the above. But if that is the case you must demonstrate this beyond dispute.

" ..and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.."
"The Declaration of Independence"
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:16 pm

Scapegoat wrote:Jim you believe yourself to be "The Child" or maybe that falls under the above.

I do? Gosh, that's news to me.

No, of all the things I might have (rightly or wrongly) thought about myself, that was never one of them. In fact, I've never been terribly interested in the usual interpretation of the child. (And I'm especially not so sure what that might have to do with the current matter.
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Postby __THE_HERMIT__ » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:08 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:No, of all the things I might have (rightly or wrongly) thought about myself, that was never one of them. In fact, I've never been terribly interested in the usual interpretation of the child. (And I'm especially not so sure what that might have to do with the current matter.

In other words, how do you explain AC's "mistake" on such a crucial and core issue, and what makes you feel you have the authority to over ride him?
I mean the title page may have been part of the "dictation" but still not part of "The Book"

" ..and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.."
"The Declaration of Independence"
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:00 am

Scapegoat wrote:In other words, how do you explain AC's "mistake" on such a crucial and core issue, and what makes you feel you have the authority to over ride him?

He made mistakes. He was human. - And BTW I didn't say anything about having any authority in the matter in general, I simply asserted that he's wrong, based on evidence known to me.

I mean the title page may have been part of the "dictation" but still not part of "The Book"

Valid consideration. I don't buy it because it strains at a distinction that I don't think is justified; but I see it as a valid point of consideration.
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Postby __THE_HERMIT__ » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:39 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Scapegoat wrote:In other words, how do you explain AC's "mistake" on such a crucial and core issue, and what makes you feel you have the authority to over ride him?

He made mistakes. He was human. - And BTW I didn't say anything about having any authority in the matter in general, I simply asserted that he's wrong, based on evidence known to me.

I mean the title page may have been part of the "dictation" but still not part of "The Book"

Valid consideration. I don't buy it because it strains at a distinction that I don't think is justified; but I see it as a valid point of consideration.

Well I just think it is logical to assume that he must have thought so! given his intelligence, he could not be unaware of the possible controversy such a view could stir, especially in this particular instance; hence he must have had strong grounds for doing so, or else he intentionally desired to cause controversy, or had lost his soundness of mind, which then throws doubt on a lot of issues.

" ..and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.."
"The Declaration of Independence"
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Postby deleted » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:07 pm

Hmm... Some of you might not like my hypothesis...

Twice in my life I've been in a rather ...bookish writing state, if you know what I mean. At the time I was writing, it was as if the associational ability of my mind was in ultra-high gear. One symbol... one accidental scratch of the pen.. one play one words... they all take on oceans of meaning.

When I think of the question, I think YES! and that TOO!

I'm not sure it's helpful to think too precisely in terms of "single intent" in anything that's on the front of that page. When I look at it and remember my own states of mind, I'm almost positive there was even some meaning to Crowley at the time that the 1026 sum shown upside down appears as 9201.

The "L" by itself suggests Lamed, goad, teacher, all that...

The sound "EL" or "AL" implies it's own meanings... in the realm of "hearing," "akasha," or "spirit" perhaps? because it is heard and not seen?

The "L" itself can even be imagined as a stylized Masonic G, which would explain the difference of appearance.

And the thing is, when you're in that state of mind. You're just writing it, and it all makes sense together AS you write it. The layers of symbolism ARE the effect of that higher mind expressing its ability to write in many "languages" at once.

An analogy would be polyphonic literature, only... this version is written in an ecstatic, inspired state.

my two cents...
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Postby Oliver P » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:18 pm

Ave de Prata wrote:\El (deity) - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(god)

(Wikipedia, I love you ! What would be of me without you ?)

Actually, thinking better, this detail is indeed important,
AL can mean anything but EL means God.

So out of interest, I looked up what Wikipedia said about AL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al

And there it is: "Liber AL, the central sacred text of Thelema" - listed under "Past Culture" [!]

Wot, has this "new Aeon" passed away already? "Modern Culture" is Weird Al Yankovic and Al Bundy...and even more puzzlingly, "Al Capone (1899–1947), prominent Chicagoan gangster from the 1920s"

Capone was born before the advent of Liber Legis and died the same year as Crowley, yet he's "Modern" and Liber AL is "Past" :-)

Words fail me. I'll have to change it.

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Postby DELETED » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:44 pm

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Re:

Postby Gideon Jagged » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:43 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:And yet the original manuscript says only Liber L. and advises us not to change so much as the style of a letter - which would include all parts of the dictation, including the title page.

So I hold that the real name is Liber L. vel Legis.

The Aleph-Lamed spelling I accept as an esoteric title, a comment on the title, a Qabalistic analysis or key, etc. etc. etc. - but not as the actual title of the Book.
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