True Will/Sexuality

[SerpentSeed123]

I'm a newbie to Thelema [since November] and I'm really fascinated about discovering my True Will. I'm also curious about freeing the desires of my subconscious mind from the control of my conscious mind [in regards to my sexuality, which I'll be honest, I'm confused about].

How would one go about discovering their True Will? What books would you suggest I buy to start out with? I'm getting the Book of the Law obviously, what else?

93/93

[Archaeus]

93

Hello, and welcome to the Forum

It's worth remembering that one of the most, if not the most important indicators of a persons nature is their sexuality and attitude to sex.

A repressed sexuality is the same as a repressed Will, and just as damaging.

I would tend to say that discovering your "true Will" is basically about discovering who you are in life, and it seems you already have a bit of a lead in that you've noticed a disparity between what your conscious mind thinks and what your subconscious Will and sexuality are saying.

It's like the old adage goes: No smoke without fire.

93 93/93

[SerpentSeed123]

Thanks Solitarius ! I was beginning to think even the basics would be too hard to understand

I'm on a journey at the moment; just came out of Christianity [I didn't repress myself then, and I don't intend on doing that now] but I'm just confused [bearing in mind I'm nineteen].

I believe Thelema can help me on my path in life; and I really want to try and make this work.

93/93.

[Jim Eshelman]

I'm on a journey at the moment; just came out of Christianity [I didn't repress myself then, and I don't intend on doing that now] but I'm just confused [bearing in mind I'm nineteen].

Some guidance on that point, then...

First, it's totally healthy to be unclear about your sexual nature at 19. Sexuality unfolds throughout life. It unfolds as you discover things about yourself, as you experiment sexually, as you encounter different people and situations, and, in general, as you learn more.

Second, "confusion" is an intellectual condition - not a condition of the emotions, or of desires in general, or the body. It has intellectual causes, therefore - most commonly, the tendency to want to label oneself. For example (I don't know if this is what you are talking about, but it's a convenient example), people often express "sexual confusion" when they are trying to "decide" whether they are gay, straight, bi, etc. Notice that this is entirely an intellectual matter; specifically, a matter of labels. My advice: Screw labels. They'll just confuse you. Your sex life isn't a questionaire with "pick one" check-boxes like the Race question on a census form.

Third, it's easier (emotionally safer, needs no props <s>) to initially explore the options in fantasy. Here, you can try every possible experience you can imagine (literally!), with every person you can possibly imagine and see what you respond to. This helps break up labels, too: In fantasy, you don't have to wear the cap of one team or the other, don't have to settle into one variety. Everything is wide open. - Of course, this isn't the same as interacting with real people, but it's a valuable exploration. It also is a fantastic lab to work through any shame issues that you may be carrying: you get to forgive, excuse, or release yourself on your own time, without fear of judgment.

Fourth... well maybe you don't need a fourth point. But, what the heck, I'll throw one more on the pile: You don't learn about this kind of thing from a distance. Sex, like life, is a participatory process (whether solo or a team sport). Real people, in intimate situations, always give us the chance to learn something past our own projections. Also, real bodies are different from the most idyllic fantasy. Most people respond sexually more by subliminal smell that by sight or concept, and you can't get that unless you're close to someone else's body. The general rule in the animal kingdom is: If it smells good, eat it.

Best of luck in this delightful journey.

[SerpentSeed123]

Great reply Jim! Spot on in regards to the 'confusion' ! I've experimented with both sexes; and was equally aroused, but slightly uncomfortable however

As you can imagine; the Christianity thing heaped piles of guilt upon me shoulders, and I can only blame myself, because I chose that lifestyle [to become 'born again'].

Again, thank-you! I just thought I'd ask what books to get alongside the Book of the Law, to start off on ?

93/93

[Jim Eshelman]

Again, thank-you! I just thought I'd ask what books to get alongside the Book of the Law, to start off on ?

There are no books on discovering your True Will - none! - and almost nothing (in a concentrated place) written by Crowley. (The most "bits and pieces" are in Liber Aleph.) That's one reason Temple of Thelema was created, as a step-by-step preparation that leads you right up to the discovery.

However, there are a lot of simpler insights (and plenty of self-discovery in general) that one can have along the way. You might BTW want to download a free digital copy of College of Thelema's Ethics of Thelema from http://thelema.org/publications/

I very strongly recommend the following book, as the best thing I've ever found on the subject of discovering your True Will (though not at all under that language): Let Your Life Speak by Parker J. Palmer. Here is my review of the book from Amazon.com (originally in Black Pearl):

I wish I had written this book. Since I didn't, I'm thrilled that Parker J. Palmer did. It encompasses every instruction I have ever given a member of our Order on the pathway to meet, embrace, and resolve the mystery of True Will; and in his patient, considered authorship, he does it vastly better than I ever have.

This is a personal, human, moving, insightful, practical work on the discovery of True Will, and living life in conformity with it. While it enumerates principles, most of the book is autobiographical - the author notes that while everyone's journey is unique, instructive insights are commonly found in, rather than veiled by, the details of someone else's trip. Palmer is a Quaker, and a noted education writer. He is also an Adept as sure as any A.'.A.'. 5=6 (though he would likely never own the title), who understands, from experience, what we call the Holy Guardian Angel, even though he calls it something else.

A feeling for this book can, perhaps, be gotten from a series of brief quotations: "Before you tell your life what you intend to do with it, listen for what it intends to do with you. Before you tell your life what truths and values you have decided to live up to, let your life tell you what truths you embody, what values you represent." "True self, when violated, will always resist us, sometimes at great cost, holding our lives in check until we honor its truth." "...self-care is never a selfish act - it is simply good stewardship of the only gift I have, the gift I was put on earth to offer to others." "The attempt to live by the reality of our own nature, which means our limits as well as our potentials, is a profoundly moral regimen." "One dwells with God by being faithful to one's nature. One crosses God by trying to be something one is not. Reality - including one's own - is divine, to be not defied but honored."

He writes of finding "the place where our deep gladness meets the world's deep need." Where Liber Legis tells us that, "There is division hither homeward," Palmer speaks to the process of finding "the courage to live divided [against ourselves] no more."

One chapter explores how limitation and ordeal conspire to discover us to ourselves. He understands projections and how to approach them. He also understands that "the way to God is down" - down into the depths of ourselves - and is found only in embracing all aspects of what is found, without judgment. He explores the mystery of depression and - though speaking of a level way, way below "the Dark Night of the Soul" - insightfully addresses its understanding and resolution by means indistinguishable from those that apply to the sojourning of that most profound abyss. His moral thrust is reflected in a quote from John Middleton Murry: "For a good man to realize that it is better to be whole than to be good is to enter on a strait and narrow path compared to which his previous rectitude was flowery license."

My worst criticism of this hardbound little book is that it could benefit from a better binding, but that is the only weakness in its manufacture. Its contents can transform a life. I give it the highest of recommendations.

[SerpentSeed123]

I'll be buying that tomorrow (oh the joys ... internet shopping!) I just downloaded what you suggested and am reading it now, might take me a while to grasp and divulge it all, ah well!

93/93

[Elmida]

93,

Welcome!

The shortest answer to give is "love who thou Willt", but of course everything sounds easier that way than it truly is.

I am very new as well (not even a year) and I too have been struggling with my sexuality for quite a while now. I grew up thinking I was heterosexual but during puberty (surprise), I was growing more and more attached to the same gender. But, like the instruction videos at school said happened in some cases, I was convinced it was just a 'phase'. I was very wrong. Eventually I got a girlfriend and we were together for four years but still the people surrounding me weren't convinced I actually was into women (my ex was very dominant and they thought she brainwashed me into loving her) and that was when I started to doubt myself too. That, and the fact that I thought I would remain alone forever if I didn't start liking the opposite gender because it's much harder to find someone who's gay as well. I forced myself to start dating guys but it made me feel extremely uncomfortable.

When I discovered Thelema I started seeing myself more as an individual and an individual that counts in this world as well. Every man and every woman is a star and that's the ideal I try to live by right now. Can't accept a person for who he/she is? Deal with it.

Now, of course, I happen to live in a country where homosexuality is 99,5% accepted and I understand that in different societies it could be more difficult. But what counts it that you shouldn't force yourself to feel what makes you uncomfortable. Don't be the person others desire to see, be the person that you are and want to be. And this probably has more to do with psychology and society, but I know Thelema helps me a lot to achieve it and make it easier.

[SerpentSeed123]

Elmida, my situation is pretty much like yours, so your not alone!:) I'm going to ignore the whole sex and sexuality thing until I reach "enlightenment" then maybe I'll be able to see clearer.

Thankyou!

93/93

[Elmida]

I wouldn't ignore it altogether, that's sort of like repressing it, but just "letting it flow" and see what happens is the solution I decided to go with. I haven't 100% excluded men yet because who knows, maybe I'll find one that I DO like, who knows? What I always like to say is "you love someone for their person, not for their gender".

[SerpentSeed123]

Each to his own I'm just going to stay chaste until I reach a state where I can think about it much more clearly otherwise I'll end up obsessing, and that wouldn't be good at-all!:D

[Trevor]

93

Step 1: Have sex with a woman
Step 2: Have sex with a man
Step 3: Meditate on which was more fun
Step 4: Repeat if necessary
Step 5: Do whichever is more fun

93, 93/93

[SerpentSeed123]

^ I've done both and like I said I'm really unsure :/ Would Yoga or anything that expands my consciousness help?

[Takamba]

^ I've done both and like I said I'm really unsure :/ Would Yoga or anything that expands my consciousness help?

Maybe it would less confusing if you just decided you enjoy both.

[Jim Eshelman]

^ I've done both and like I said I'm really unsure :/ Would Yoga or anything that expands my consciousness help?

I get the idea that you're looking for a quick answer. It doesn't usually work that way. This sort of thing clarifies over time, and continues to present new aspects of itself throughout your entire life.

I also think you're still trying to stick labels on yourself. "Let me get this thing decided once and for all!" I think the labels are likely to cause you at least frustration, if not actual pain.

How about going forth into life with a sense of how much you don't know about yourself, and the delight of having your entire life ahead of you to figure them out.

[Trevor]

93

^ I've done both and like I said I'm really unsure :/ Would Yoga or anything that expands my consciousness help?

Step 4, as provided above.

There is, however, a secret way to expand your consciousness and discover your interests without having to figure them out for yourself. These ways are infinitely magical and have been kept secret by the FBI, CIA, and the OTO for centuries.

It does have to do with Yoga. First stand on your head and say the following:

"I A O I call upon ye, O great Nuit!
I A O I call upon ye, O great Hadit!
I A O I call upon ye, O great Aiwass!
Lend unto me your divine wisdom, O great entities."

Light a hula-hoop on fire and jump through it six times. Then, balance a rubber ball on your nose until someone gives you a fish, which you will then eat--do this six times. Finally, stand on your right leg with your left arm straight up in the air, and face Israel. Roll your eyes back into your head and imagine yourself as swimming in a school of fish. Trouts and salmon are the best visuals. Imagine yourself having sex with all the boy trouts/salmons, and then all the girl ones. Light six hundred sixty-six candles in a perfect circle around you and do somesaults around the circumference six full times (no more and no less, otherwise the ceremony will fail).

Sacrifice a lamb or small cat and write Aleph-Yodh-Nun on a white T-shirt, and then don the t-shirt. Drink the remaining blood. Make sure it dribbles down your face and mingles with the blood currently depicting Hebrew letters on your T-shirt. Repeat the above chant and sacrifice a cow, chanting the obvious Hindu prayers as you do so. Do this six times.

Place a copy of Aleister Crowley's "777" in the center of the candle-circle. Place a copy of the Holy Bible atop it, and finally, a copy of Gertrude Chandler Warner's "The Boxcar Children" atop that. Sanctify this pile of literature by falling to your knees and worshipping it for six hours, six minutes, and six seconds. Any more or any less will cause the ceremony to fail.

Leaving the candles lit, go to sleep. If all goes according to plan, you will have a dream. This dream will involve shadows, demons, and you may have images of your residence burning down around you. Upon awakening, you must immediately begin meditating upon the dream. If you meditate on this dream for six hours, six minutes, and six seconds straight--at the complete and utter expense of all other subjects/needs--the Gods will bestow upon you a thought. This thought will be presented with complete and absolute clarity. In this case, you will hear the words "I like men" or "I like women" resonating through your head, depending on whichever notion your subconsiousness is inclined toward. Thus you shall have your answer.

93, 93/93

[SerpentSeed123]

^ I've done both and like I said I'm really unsure :/ Would Yoga or anything that expands my consciousness help?

I get the idea that you're looking for a quick answer. It doesn't usually work that way. This sort of thing clarifies over time, and continues to present new aspects of itself throughout your entire life.

I also think you're still trying to stick labels on yourself. "Let me get this thing decided once and for all!" I think the labels are likely to cause you at least frustration, if not actual pain.

How about going forth into life with a sense of how much you don't know about yourself, and the delight of having your entire life ahead of you to figure them out.

It's true that. I get really stressed or anxious not knowing certain things, and the OCD doesn't help which is why someone said I should try Yoga because it helps with anxiety etc. I'll take your advice on board and try to put it into practice. I sound like a right idiot to be honest

[Takamba]

^ I've done both and like I said I'm really unsure :/ Would Yoga or anything that expands my consciousness help?

I get the idea that you're looking for a quick answer. It doesn't usually work that way. This sort of thing clarifies over time, and continues to present new aspects of itself throughout your entire life.

I also think you're still trying to stick labels on yourself. "Let me get this thing decided once and for all!" I think the labels are likely to cause you at least frustration, if not actual pain.

How about going forth into life with a sense of how much you don't know about yourself, and the delight of having your entire life ahead of you to figure them out.

It's true that. I get really stressed or anxious not knowing certain things, and the OCD doesn't help which is why someone said I should try Yoga because it helps with anxiety etc. I'll take your advice on board and try to put it into practice. I sound like a right idiot to be honest

Haveing just publicly confessed that you've accepted some fool giving you the label "OCD" (which I suspect now means you are religiously taking their pills), you do sound like right idiot to be honest.

[SerpentSeed123]

Ha! Least your being honest;) So I'm guessing you think it doesn't exist ? and yes, I'm on Mirtazapine ... though to be honest, smoking the weed helped more :L

[Takamba]

OCD, ADHD, and slew of other letters are thrown around as convenience in the psychiatric world because big pharma pays the bills on the academic level. And if your intent is to be a man of letters, you need those pills to support you.

Yes. I'm highly suspect of your diagnosis. For one thing, it shows a failure to succeed in the first part of Crowley's big blue opus variously known as Magick. The first part is called mysticism and it teaches you to sit still and take control of yourself. My understanding of someone who is diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is that they can't have a will of their own. If you truly believe that, you're in the wrong playground me thinks.

[SerpentSeed123]

OCD, ADHD, and slew of other letters are thrown around as convenience in the psychiatric world because big pharma pays the bills on the academic level. And if your intent is to be a man of letters, you need those pills to support you.

Yes. I'm highly suspect of your diagnosis. For one thing, it shows a failure to succeed in the first part of Crowley's big blue opus variously known as Magick. The first part is called mysticism and it teaches you to sit still and take control of yourself. My understanding of someone who is diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is that they can't have a will of their own. If you truly believe that, you're in the wrong playground me thinks.

I've only been into 'Spirituality/Thelema' since November so I've got alot to do. What do YOU suggest I should do then ? Stop trying to discover my goal, my path, my will ?

[Takamba]

OCD, ADHD, and slew of other letters are thrown around as convenience in the psychiatric world because big pharma pays the bills on the academic level. And if your intent is to be a man of letters, you need those pills to support you.

Yes. I'm highly suspect of your diagnosis. For one thing, it shows a failure to succeed in the first part of Crowley's big blue opus variously known as Magick. The first part is called mysticism and it teaches you to sit still and take control of yourself. My understanding of someone who is diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is that they can't have a will of their own. If you truly believe that, you're in the wrong playground me thinks.

I've only been into 'Spirituality/Thelema' since November so I've got alot to do. What do YOU suggest I should do then ? Stop trying to discover my goal, my path, my will ?

What little I know about you will get in the way. I'm not medically trained so I can't tell you what to do about your prescription but I personally would prefer you suspect your doctor is wrong and see what you can do about it. I recommend you practice sitting still, silent, and controlling your self. I recommend you practice controlling your thoughts and actions with thoughts and actions (fight fire with fire) and not with pills. I recommend you read and do the practices in Jim's "The Mystical and Magical System of the A .'. A .'." book because even though I've never read it I'm convinced it has everything you need, and also I recommend Israel Regardie's "One Year Manual" because I have read it and it has everything too.

I recommend Crowley's Liber ABA (Magick : Book Four) because it does have everything. Do the exercises. Make this your obsession. Don't argue about the words, take Crowley on Crowley's terms. In other words, there are no short cuts.

[SerpentSeed123]

OCD, ADHD, and slew of other letters are thrown around as convenience in the psychiatric world because big pharma pays the bills on the academic level. And if your intent is to be a man of letters, you need those pills to support you.

Yes. I'm highly suspect of your diagnosis. For one thing, it shows a failure to succeed in the first part of Crowley's big blue opus variously known as Magick. The first part is called mysticism and it teaches you to sit still and take control of yourself. My understanding of someone who is diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is that they can't have a will of their own. If you truly believe that, you're in the wrong playground me thinks.

I've only been into 'Spirituality/Thelema' since November so I've got alot to do. What do YOU suggest I should do then ? Stop trying to discover my goal, my path, my will ?

What little I know about you will get in the way. I'm not medically trained so I can't tell you what to do about your prescription but I personally would prefer you suspect your doctor is wrong and see what you can do about it. I recommend you practice sitting still, silent, and controlling your self. I recommend you practice controlling your thoughts and actions with thoughts and actions (fight fire with fire) and not with pills. I recommend you read and do the practices in Jim's "The Mystical and Magical System of the A .'. A .'." book because even though I've never read it I'm convinced it has everything you need, and also I recommend Israel Regardie's "One Year Manual" because I have read it and it has everything too.

I recommend Crowley's Liber ABA (Magick : Book Four) because it does have everything. Do the exercises. Make this your obsession. Don't argue about the words, take Crowley on Crowley's terms. In other words, there are no short cuts.

See, that's the reply I've been waiting for! At long last! I'll try it out. See what happens!

[SerpentSeed123]

PS. I bought Abrahadabra: Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thelemic Magick and that'll be coming tomorrow, any opinions on that text?

[Takamba]

PS. I bought Abrahadabra: Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thelemic Magick and that'll be coming tomorrow, any opinions on that text?

It's a very good primer on the subject. I certainly recommend it for dumbing down Thelema, but make no mistake that your mind and imagination and soul will get along much further when you read Crowley's words.