Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

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Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Frater Tenc » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:48 am

If one interprets the third chapter of the Book of the Law rather literally
One can come to the conclusion that Crowley, or Horus, whoever actually came up with the text inside the book, was advocating some type of genocide against most of humanity.

"Choose ye an island
fortify it
smite the peoples (wage war on them" to paraphrase.

Did Crowley want Thelemites to literally choose and island, and wage genocidal war upon the general non-Thelemic population?

Another observation is that I've noticed many people excuse war and blame it on the 'Aeon of Horus', saying that it's necessary no matter how tired humanity has grown of it, or how childish it may be.

It seems to me, humanity, rather than bow down and just 'go with the flow' of an 'Aeon', should have the 'magical' power to change the Aeon. To end war, and prosper. In my opinion, the Aeon of Isis was probably the paradise that we've since lost and long to return to. A time when humans lived quite a lot more peacefully with each other, and in direct contact with mother earth. Mother Goddess worship was common, too.

That being said, I'm thinking myself about leaving Thelema and going down the path of Shamanic Wicca. I don't like how distant from nature Thelema seems to be in philosophy. And most people I've ever associated with, especially in real life, who call themselves Thelemites have egos bigger than my house.

It seems to me that shamanism, neopaganism, and Wicca are more for the right-brained people like me who like to improvise more their rituals, and be a bit more loosely creative in their Great Work. I'm not slamming Thelema, but I don't feel I have a place in it anymore. Unless maybe someone can answer my questions and maybe my mind will change... :D
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:04 am

If one interprets the third chapter of the Book of the Law rather literally

Well, there you go.

How has that worked out for any other holy text in the history of humanity?
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Frater Tenc » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:09 am

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:
If one interprets the third chapter of the Book of the Law rather literally

Well, there you go.

How has that worked out for any other holy text in the history of humanity?

I would appreciate if instead of sarcasm, you'd tell me how you interpret the lines I paraphrased.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Frater Tenc » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:28 am

Dar es Allrah wrote:Taken literally:

Choose ye an Island: Japan.

Fortify it: "We will never surrender!" - said the Japanese, even when they were surrounded.

Smite the peoples: Hiroshima.

But no - I don't believe it should be taken literally as meaning this either.

That's really interesting. I never thought of that.

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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Frater Tenc » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:30 am

AL III,4: "Choose ye an island!"

4-9. This is a practical instruction; and, as a 'military secret', is not in any way soever to be disclosed. I say only that the plans are complete, and that the first nation to accept the Law of Thelema Shall, by My counsel, become sole Mistress of the World.


5. Fortify it = concentrate the mind upon it.

AL III,7: "I will give you a war-engine."

This suggests the Tank, the Island chosen being England. But this is probably a forthshadowing of the real Great War, wherein Horus shall triumph utterly.

AL III,8: "With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you."

"Lurk! Withdraw! Upon them!" describes the three parts of a certain magical gesture indicative of a formula which has proven very powerful in practical work.

(The events beginning in An XVII Sol in Libra, when I write these words, and ending I do not yet know when, will form a luminous comment on the passage. There is an alternative, taking the beginning as An X sol in Libra, and implying larger periods).



I met a "Thelemite" in an IRC channel yesterday who claimed war is "Good" because it causes survival of the fittest. As if bullets and nuclear bombs somehow only kill the "weak". Ahah.



My biggest remaining question is: Do we have to obey the conditions of the Aeon of Horus, or does humanity have the power to usher in a new Aeon? Also: If Aeons only last 2500 years, this doesn't make sense. I would say the Aeon of Isis was at least 100,000 years.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:01 am

Frater Tenc wrote:If one interprets the third chapter of the Book of the Law rather literally

Always a risky endeavor. The book is primarily archetypal, and only secondly (or indirectly) precipitates into physical events.

Did Crowley want Thelemites to literally choose and island, and wage genocidal war upon the general non-Thelemic population?

No.

That's aside from the fact that it wasn't Crowley who wrote this. It was Crowley who wrote it down from dictation.

Another observation is that I've noticed many people excuse war and blame it on the 'Aeon of Horus', saying that it's necessary no matter how tired humanity has grown of it, or how childish it may be.

I consider physical war etc. as a failure of the Aeon of Horus to fully emerge. ("Failure" in the predictable sense of "flailing while trying to learn WTF is going on.") It's a consequence of people not doing their True Wills, and of failing to undergo actual transformation. If we don't actualize strong inner pressures at the psychological level, they WILL emerge as leaks in life-events. That's the basic principle which generalizes in this case.

It seems to me, humanity, rather than bow down and just 'go with the flow' of an 'Aeon', should have the 'magical' power to change the Aeon. To end war, and prosper. In my opinion, the Aeon of Isis was probably the paradise that we've since lost and long to return to. A time when humans lived quite a lot more peacefully with each other, and in direct contact with mother earth. Mother Goddess worship was common, too.

We can't go back. There's never any return, only going forward.

Or, rather, to go back to that is to eject the entire intellect/Ruach development and drop back to having only subconsciousness. We need to move forward, into superconsciousness.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:49 am

Frater Tenc wrote:
Avshalom Binyamin wrote:
If one interprets the third chapter of the Book of the Law rather literally

Well, there you go.

How has that worked out for any other holy text in the history of humanity?

I would appreciate if instead of sarcasm, you'd tell me how you interpret the lines I paraphrased.

I wasn't being sarcastic, and you didn't ask for interpretations in your original post.

I'm not going to presume to tell you what these verses mean. I just think that any literal and superficial reading is unlikely to have good results.

But, to humor you, here are some impressions I get from reading the verses:

There are three verses, that follow this pattern of a command with an exclamation mark:
Choose ye an island!
Fortify it!
Dung it about with enginery of war!


"Dung" makes me think of the digestive system. The manipura (naval) chakra comes to mind. Hey--naval (stomach)/naval (ocean/island)--that's interesting... The manipura chakra is associated with will and vital energy.

Perhaps this is instruction on opening this chakra, and moving to the next one, the Anahata, or heart chakra, associated with Tiphareth...

Here's an interesting thread:
http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9958
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby gmugmble » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:40 am

Frater Tenc wrote:Another observation is that I've noticed many people excuse war and blame it on the 'Aeon of Horus', saying that it's necessary no matter how tired humanity has grown of it, or how childish it may be.

It's worth noting that -- despite WW1, WW2, 9/11, people shooting up schools and movie theaters, and all the other horrible things that continue to happen -- the overwhelming trend is that the world is becoming more peaceful and less violent. This trend away from violence started thousands of years ago, but picked up pace after WW2, and again in the 1980s. I'm not just being idealistic -- this is all carefully and thoroughly documented in Steven Pinker's Better Angels of Our Nature.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Mike » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:55 pm

93.

Just my thoughts:

Choose ye an island!
Fortify it!
Dung it about with enginery of war!
I will give you a war engine.
With it ye shall smite the peoples, and none shall stand before you.


Select an individual vehicle, out of the great sea of the universe, for self-expression!
Strengthen and vitalize it!
Equip it with the tools needed to achieve transformation and self-actualization!
I will provide the generator to power the machine you construct.
With it you shall wipe out internal conflict, and nothing external shall impede you as you accomplish your Will.

93, 93/93.

[Edit]: Capitalized the "W" in "Will," which was my intention.
Last edited by Mike on Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Macsen Melinydd » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:21 pm

93's
Ash wrote:Select an individual vehicle, out of the great sea of the universe, for self-expression!
Strengthen and vitalize it!
Equip it with the tools needed to achieve transformation and self-actualization!
I will provide the generator to power the machine you construct.
With it you shall wipe out internal conflict, and nothing external shall impede you as you accomplish your will.

Like.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Takamba » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:28 pm

Diluvium wrote:93's
Ash wrote:Select an individual vehicle, out of the great sea of the universe, for self-expression!
Strengthen and vitalize it!
Equip it with the tools needed to achieve transformation and self-actualization!
I will provide the generator to power the machine you construct.
With it you shall wipe out internal conflict, and nothing external shall impede you as you accomplish your will.

Like.

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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Fr Seraphis » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:14 am

Frater Tenc wrote:If one interprets the third chapter of the Book of the Law rather literally
One can come to the conclusion that Crowley, or Horus, whoever actually came up with the text inside the book, was advocating some type of genocide against most of humanity.


LOL
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Uni_Verse » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:35 am

Thank you Ash, for that wonderful contribution!

This kind of mixes with the other thread about War & Vengeance.
He is a God of War & Vengeance.
He shall provide the war engine.
He is powerful to protect His people.

Those who stand against you shall be struck down violently.
Not as the direct result of your actions.
It is the back lash of attempting to stand against an act of Will.
A struggle against all the allied forces of the Universe...
The sea where in floats your island
Fortified by strength of Lust and Will
With a single Word all men are killed
And you just keep walking on...
There is only one verse,
sung in infinite ways.
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"Here!"
I come or came?
I sung!
To seeD the Way
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God sings,
WE experience:
THE UNIVERSE!
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:40 am

Dar es Allrah wrote:
AL III,4: "Choose ye an island!"

"4-9. This is a practical instruction; and, as a 'military secret', is not in any way soever to be disclosed. I say only that the plans are complete..."

Is this part of the new comment? When was that written again?

1920s.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:32 am

Sounds to me like he's speaking metaphorically.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Bereshith » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:21 am

9. ...this is the Law of the Battle of Conquest...


Verses 4 through 9 represent a principle that is true in all realms of the "Battle of Conquest." As such, it can be taken literally or metaphorically. Again, it's a principle.

If taken literally, I still don't think it "advocates genocide" (from the original question). In context, it refers to the defense of the island, whatever that island may be. Confining it to its own context, it doesn't mention world domination from that island; it speaks only of defense of the chosen island.

42. Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch! Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; & destroy them utterly.


The general question seems to be whether it was the intent of the author for this text to be taken literally. While no one can know how future events may play out so as to make the literal interpretation of this text practical, it can be inferred from context that the text is not to be taken literally alone or even primarily.

63. The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its comment; & he understandeth it not.
64. Let him come through the first ordeal, & it will be to him as silver.
65. Through the second, gold.
66. Through the third, stones of precious water.
67. Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate fire.


These verses indicate an understanding of the text that evolves through the course of spiritual (or at least psycho-spiritual) experiences. The context suggests that the primary intent of the text is metaphorical though the principle still applies in all realms.

If the context is expanded to include Chapter II, then we have further confirmation that the literal interpretation of the text must be considered secondary:

Chapter II:27. There is great danger in me; for who doth not understand these runes shall make a great miss.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:59 pm

Dar es Allrah wrote:
Avshalom Binyamin wrote:Sounds to me like he's speaking metaphorically.


Speaking metaphorically about a practical instruction that is also a military secret? :-)

Ok... (scuse me while I unbend my head... :D )

I meant speaking metaphorically about a 'military secret'--a phrase which happened to be in quotes.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the island of Fernando Poo yet...
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:18 pm

Dar es Allrah wrote:
Avshalom Binyamin wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned the island of Fernando Poo yet...


... ?

A little joke. "Dung it about with enginery of war!" dung/poo. The island plays a central plot role in The Illuminatus Trilogy...
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby oldfriend56 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:50 pm

I'm not sure of any of the kabbalistic or hermetic interpretations of the third chapter what sover, but I do relate to your repulsion. It's the combination of the compulsion and repulsion of the book of the law that one can find enlightening - even for peaceful loving thoughtful people like you and I.


How i hated that chapter for a while, and I too thought of leaving my thelemic explorations for good!

So what's up with the third chapter? why all the war, war, war? what does this have to do with love and life and light and liberty? isn't this being the law contrary to blowing our brothers to bits and drinking their blood and eating their flesh in victory? of course it is. So one must either accept that the author of Liber Al was Cthulu, or it means something else entirely.

So I will share with you my own unique understanding of liber Al ch III. It' actually now one of my favorite chapters - I admit I may have a unique twist on it and I can't really explain how I have come to these conclusions exactly, really just from many hours of meditation, vision, intuition, and of course I am sure some delusion thrown in for good measure, but my understanding makes sense to me and there fore I dig it :)

I also except that the author of liber al is higher intelligence that is guiding humanity which also needs assistance, and the book of the law is the 'gymnasium' for the psyche to understand a few next steps and where the right person can help full fill some of it's prophecy, even just a little bit. Because it is essentially a book of knowledge and power (understanding and wisdom is supplied by the reader and is necessary to unlock it's secrets) it's also dangerous, both to the individual studying it and to the power or knowledge one can use for it for nefarious purposes (L Ron Hubbard comes to mind). So the most shocking components serve a few purposes, both to project the knowledge while also protecting the knowledge. An open secret, so to speak.

I believe the third chapter reveals the 'messiah' emerging, messiah being of course Ra Hoor Khuit, which I understand as the 'collective intelligence' of humanity, operating with a 'collective true will' and that true will collectively can be understood as simply as 'win win' for all. The emergence of this collective intelligence in the 20th and now 21st century is what destroys the old order - and yes, this is indeed a war.

WAR in the third chapter relates to the 'conflict of idea' - the 'wars which are in heaven' - our psyche. No matter how jesus or buddha we are, ideas are always going to be in conflict and every idea thought of has an opposite in contradiction to it. Dont think of this just in terms of our own individual psyche's, think of this in terms of our collective psyche and the conflict of idea. The conflict of idea is eternal and this war is eternal. However, we are not ideas of course and when we confuse ourselves as our ideas, things get bloody, violent, irrational, lose lose, etc etc. This is nothing new, bloody wars have been going on forever as well as dysfunctioning society. For the first time in history, and yes I believe this is predicted in the third chapter, humanity through technology that is indeed allowing a collective intelligence to emerge, is actually in a reasonable position to create a functioning 'win win society'. Through technology, we can actually focus on the conflict of idea as a method of resolution instead of actual war fare.

Social Media is the third chapter incarnate, it's tearing down structures, religions, institutions, governments, industries. And it's not using violence to do it. It's doing it with information, spreading through technology, and increasing the speed of the historical dialectical process that will allow a rational collective intelligence to emerge. The conflict of idea allows us to work together to increase our understanding, wisdom, intelligence, humor so we can problem solve, negotiate, and find resolution.

In this light, War is most certainly love.
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby oldfriend56 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:54 pm

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:
Dar es Allrah wrote:
Avshalom Binyamin wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned the island of Fernando Poo yet...


... ?

A little joke. "Dung it about with enginery of war!" dung/poo. The island plays a central plot role in The Illuminatus Trilogy...


haha! thanks for that, it's been years since I read it and never put that together! that guy (RAW) got me started on this whole mess around 30 years ago
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Selene » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:49 am

I worry less about what Crowley/Aiwass meant, and more about how others may (mis)interpret it.
Am I right, did Hitler once read the Book of the Law?

Aside from Hitler, there are passages in the Book of the Law I (hope) I don't understand; in that it sounds like it's advocating violence, and I worry that someone will use it to justify their own violent inclinations....
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby AliceKnewIt » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:00 pm

Selene wrote:I worry less about what Crowley/Aiwass meant, and more about how others may (mis)interpret it.
Am I right, did Hitler once read the Book of the Law?

Aside from Hitler, there are passages in the Book of the Law I (hope) I don't understand; in that it sounds like it's advocating violence, and I worry that someone will use it to justify their own violent inclinations....


I think anyone who is bent on justifying their violence is going to use whatever they want to use. We can't control others.

Do I get to use this shooting guy here?
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby AliceKnewIt » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:13 am

No sympathy for Nazis!!!!
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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Starry Soul » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:58 am

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I agree that future wars are not inevitable. However, past wars were inevitable. If that makes any sense.

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Re: Was Aleister Crowley advocating genocide?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:56 am

At this point in time, past wars ARE inevitable; but I' don't at all agree that they WERE (prior to their inauguration).

Humanity has a choice: Gett he underlying call to transformation, to rewriting the map of consciousness - or see it spilling over into phenomena in a "lowest common denominator sense." In a rough, crude summation: As a species, tear down and remap your inner reality, or a seemingly involuntary wave of blood will wash the world, tearing down and remapping outer reality.
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