Contacting the Cancellarius

[Luce]

I wish to get into contact with the A.'.A.'.

My first line of attack was to send you a PM, Jim, that I really hope you are able to read, though I know you don't love PMs and don't check them very often...

My second line of attack was to again email the Cancellarius. However, I received a bounce-back, so I think that email is down!

My third line of attack is to post publicly on the forums. So here I am! I guess my reasons for posting here are twofold: I'm hoping to draw your (Jim's) attention to your PMs, but I also just want to let you know that the Cancellarius email is down in case you were unaware of a technical issue. Feel free to delete this topic as I don't really have anything to discuss

EDIT: I know you are on a two-week imbibing tour/bender, so no rush

[Luce]

Cancellarius email is still down (still getting a bounce-back). Jim, are you around?

[Gnosomai Emauton]

Unfortunately Luce, that email has been down for well nigh a decade and, if personal experience is any guide, no other lines of attack really prove fruitful here. If you're really intent on contacting the A.'.A.'., I had luck with cancellarius@onestarinsight.org, also part of the Soror Estai lineage, who responded within a few days.

[Luce]

Thanks for your response.

I've been interested in being received into the A.'.A.'. for years now... I've made contact with both Shoemaker's and Gunther's lineages in the past, and while I feel the former is a better option (for me, anyway) than the latter, I nevertheless feel this inexplicable drawing toward the A.'.A.'. that Jim leads.

Of course, if Jim's lineage is defunct and/or not receiving any new students, then my intuition must be off and I best re-calibrate.

Nevertheless, I'm hoping for confirmation that Jim's A.'.A.'. is defunct/inactive (at least where new students are concerned). Then at least I'd know I'm barking up the wrong tree. Jim (or anyone else in the know about this particular A.'.A.'.), can you confirm (or deny)?

[Gnosomai Emauton]

I figured I'd give it a bit to see if anyone else wanted to jump in but, since things seem pretty silent around here, this is what I can tell you, as "someone in the know".

This lineage is not "defunct". I can confirm at least one new Probationer within the past two years (there may be more, but I'm only personally aware of the one).

That individual (K, for convenience) was in a similar situation to yourself and myself -- feeling an inexplicable drawing toward this particular lineage. K reached out via email and snail mail a few times with no response and ultimately, living in Los Angeles, ended up going to one of the Temple of Thelema public classes to talk with someone in person. At that class, K was told that the College of Thelema was, for all intents and purposes, defunct, and that Temple of Thelema was the necessary "on-ramp" for the A.'.A.'..

It was about two years into K's Temple of Thelema experience that K told me this history and further told me that s/he probably had at least another 2-3 years (or more) to go before being qualified to become a Probationer (this was about two and a half years ago). That projected timeline pretty much broke my own inexplicable drawing to this lineage and it was around that time that I wrote to the email address I gave previously and received an almost immediate reply to begin the traditional 3 month Student Grade.

I've since learned that my experience motivated K to pull some strings, push some levers -- do some Magick, I suppose -- and get admitted as a Probationer much sooner than typical, but still it was at least a two and a half year process.

That was my recalibration process, FWIW.

[Luce]

Thanks for the information; I really appreciate it.

Wow, what a huge letdown! I'm Canadian, so ToT is simply not an option for me (wouldn't be able to stay in the country except for 6 months out of every year, and couldn't be working at all while in the US). And if ToT is the only on-ramp to this A.'.A.'., then I'm screwed.

But what you say definitely matches up to the email situation... That email address is still down, so I guess it's down for good.

Although I can't imagine how hard it is to progress if it's that hard to become a student! I mean, even if I became a Probationer by some miracle, I can't imagine there are many Neophytes, or many Zelators, etc. all the way up! Moreover, if the only on-ramp is ToT, it stands to reason that the vast majority of members would be in the LA area! *sigh*.

Would you mind if I PMed you to discuss more about your experiences with Shoemaker's lineage? Or are you really hush-hush about everything?

[Gnosomai Emauton]

It's not that I'm hush hush -- one of the clauses of the Tasks of the Order, from Probationer through Dominis Liminis is, after all: "He shall everywhere proclaim openly his connection with the A.'. A.'. and speak of It and Its principles (even so little as he understandeth) for that mystery is the enemy of Truth." -- just that I'd have very little to say.

Once you're accepted as a Probationer, from that point forward you have a one-on-one relationship with one person, your Neophyte. All the work is your own, s/he acts mainly as your sounding board, sparring partner, adviser, referee, and whatever else grows out of your personal dynamic. Assuming your Neophyte hasn't decided to take things into hir own hands and change anything about the system (Jim's book is by far the best roadmap that exists to verify this), there shouldn't be anything to discriminate one "lineage" from another aside from how available they currently are to taking on Probationers.

Everything of import to the system has been published or is readily available on the internet (with the partial exception of the rites of initiation which are necessarily secret so that important moments of surprise exist to catalyze change in those who actually go through them). All other benefit from formally initiating into it comes from the personal relationship built with your superior and how you use that relationship to further yourself in the Great Work... and then pass on the same service to your own Probationers.

[Luce]

Eshelman, can you hear me...

[Luce]

Eshelman, are you out there...

[Luce]

Jim...

[seekinghga]

Jim...

Behind your little person, abiding as the light of absolute and pure consciousness, you are. You are there. Even in Heaven. Even in Hell. You are there. You will never abandon you. Far, far away beyond the starry reaches of the cascading countenances of continual conditions it abides in the heart, the center, the soul of your existence. It's not about obtaining freedom to do your will. That is always present. It's about obtaining freedom from those things which you think would hinder. You already have absolute freedom. Do not let it coalesce in the misery of languid regret. You are a star.

[mark0987]

It is clear that you are getting no response, it may be because they don't have the resources i.e. the neophytes necessary to take you on. You seek admittance to the A.'.A.'. but you are concerned about lineage- lineage does not matter, what matters is the calibre of the adepts within those lineages, it should be clear upon your first contact with an appointed superior whether or not they know what they are talking about- because by the time you have read the student curriculum you are speaking the same language.

Why don't you try elsewhere?

http://www.astrumargenteum.org/en/links/

That is a link which lists many of the public lineages of A.'.A.'. around the world, I cannot comment on any of the lineages, how they operate, or if they are taking on students.

[Luce]

I completely agree with you. It's not that I feel this particular lineage must be the only correct one... Let me explain my stance briefly.

When I read Crowley, I'm amazed at his intellectual acumen, his poetic style, but beyond this, I get this clear feeling that "this man has what I want." But it's deeper than that: it's this hard-to-describe intuition that this person is an Adept. I get this feeling strongest with Crowley, but I also get this feeling with people like Dion Fortune, and certain members of the Golden Dawn.

When I read the work of the leaders of the other A.'.A.'. groups, I get the feeling that they are intelligent, and that they are strong teachers. But I haven't gotten that unshakable confidence that they are true Adepts. I'm NOT at all saying they aren't Adepts! I'm just saying I haven't received that unshakable confidence... But when I read the works of Eshelman, and even when I just read through his hundreds/thousands of forum posts answering people's questions, I get this feeling that "this man has what I want" -- this hard-to-describe intuition that this person is an Adept.

I have tried to find this with members of the other A.'.A.'. organizations... I wanted to find this with the other organizations, because the other two large ones not only have email addresses that actually work, but that they actually respond to! But I just haven't gotten that indescribable prompting to go forward with those lineages like I have with Jim's.

A few years ago, it became clear to me that the A.'.A.'. is exactly what I've been searching for for many years. Even though at the time, I was within the bounds of fundamental Christianity, the A.'.A.'. was always what I was searching for -- a system of initiation and training into God, into my True Will, into Meaning, into true sanctification.

Ever since then, I knew I wanted to dedicate my life to the A.'.A.'.. Some people might disagree with that, but I don't mean in the way that my true dedication should be finding God, or finding my true self (although the reason I'm dedicated to the A.'.A.'. is precisely because of those things). I mean it in a more mundane way, perhaps: that when I did, if I had accomplished nothing outside of the Attainment of the A.'.A.'., I would die fulfilled, whereas I could have every earthly pleasure and die having never joined the A.'.A.'. and die unfulfilled. Of course, I don't know what I'll think once I'm at the end, but I guess I'm just explaining the importance that the A.'.A.'. has for me. I just have this unshakable feeling that this is the right path for me.

So, if you read the above, you can imagine the significance that the A.'.A.'. has for me. Maybe I'm even repeating myself as to what I wrote many months ago in this thread... But suffice it to say that because this is the one thing I am certain of when it comes to my ultimate life goals, I want to do this right.

Having the unshakable confidence in one lineage, versus not having that confidence with the others, as well as getting that internal "go ahead" with one lineage, versus not having that with the others, is what keeps me replying to this same damn thread, and sending emails every few weeks to the Cancellarius that inevitably bounce-back. And it's also what keeps me from going forward with the other A.'.A.'. lineages...

Finally, as you may or may not know, it is the policy of Jim's A.'.A.'. that if someone has reached the Probationer degree in another A.'.A.'. lineage, they are not eligible for admission into his A.'.A.'. group in this incarnation. Meaning if I did just go ahead on faith with a different A.'.A.'. and never ended up getting that "this is an Adept" intuition, it would be too late to turn around and continue trying with Jim's lineage. So, as you can see from all of this... it's a pretty serious decision for me.

[Takamba]

The Brother of the A.A. is fulfilled.
The Student of the A.A. is fulfilled.
The Seeker of the A.A. is fulfilled.

[Luce]

Honestly, what is going on here. On Wikipedia, it says that Seckler appointed Jim to bear her legacy... But yet all the A.'.A.'. emails have been bouncing-back for 6+ months. I don't understand why Jim wouldn't at least fix the email address or remove it -- there is no indication of if his A.'.A.'. is still going or not!

In this thread, it was said that students are still taken on occasionally, if they know Jim in person... But what's the future of this organization?? If just a few people get let in here and there, and the email addresses aren't working, then has Jim simply stopped caring about being the legacy-bearer of Seckler with regards to A.'.A.'.? He doesn't even post here on Heruraha any more, which is the Temple of Thelema's website: the organization that is supposed to continue on Seckler's legacy, too! Is all this A.'.A.'. stuff just being put on the back-burner?

I also know that Seckler authorized David Shoemaker to take on students of the A.'.A.'.. I'm not sure if that means that David is ALSO appointed to carry on Seckler's legacy. If he is, then has Jim just resigned to letting David be in charge of Seckler's branch of A.'.A.'.?

You all have to admit: having all the A.'.A.'. email addresses bouncing back emails for a period of at least 6 months doesn't look good for the future of Jim's A.'.A.'. Is Jim allowing his branch to sink into obscurity, or is he just busy and will pull the reigns out to revitalize everything?

[Hermitas]

I don’t know anything. But I can say that I’ve ended up missing out on some good things because I couldn’t pursue them with patient persistence.

[Luce]

What do you mean by this? Are you implying I should just keep pursuing entry into Jim's A.'.A.'.?

It's hard to know the best option... I'm sure many people look at this thread and see desperation, and think "man, be more patient..." but what those people don't know is that before I even started this thread, there had been a three-year period of waiting -- that is, I applied to Jim's A.'.A.'. three years prior to starting this thread, and was waiting in relative silence for that period of time... Then, I thought maybe that type of waiting might not work... Now I'm actively trying to say, "hey, is anyone even running this A.'.A.'. anymore?"

[mark0987]

It's hard to know the best option... I'm sure many people look at this thread and see desperation, and think "man, be more patient..." but what those people don't know is that before I even started this thread, there had been a three-year period of waiting -- that is, I applied to Jim's A.'.A.'. three years prior to starting this thread, and was waiting in relative silence for that period of time... Then, I thought maybe that type of waiting might not work... Now I'm actively trying to say, "hey, is anyone even running this A.'.A.'. anymore?"

The thing is that A.'.A.'. members are not common in any lineage. There is not an abundance of members and most people can't handle the work and drop out during the early grades. That means there is a shortage of neophytes and an abundance of applications, not everyone can be supervised, it is impossible. The neophytes have their own work to be doing and so can't be too stretched themselves. I am not saying this is definitely the case for the Soror Estai lineage, I have no idea, but I can say that in my own experience of my lineage and another that this seems to be the case.

You have also got to remember that the Soror Estai lineage probably gets a lot of applications, it takes time to sift through these and the people doing the sifting probably have day jobs, they don't have time to get to everyone. I have always found that when you are ready the teacher does appear in one form or another.

I wish you luck in your endeavors, but I must say that if I felt ready and felt like I truly needed someone to help guide me, I would place my eggs in many baskets, not just one.

[Luce]

Thank you for your response. I do think you might have missed something in my post though: The email associated with Jim's A.'.A.'. doesn't work. So it's not an issue of an abundance of applications -- unless they just received so many that they just decided to not fix the server. Moreover, I don't think it was intentional: on the site, it stills says aspirants can apply by emailing the Cancellarius, except when anyone goes to email him/her, the email gets bounced back to the sender. This is the case with the Praemonstrator email address either.

So my issue isn't just that I'm not getting a response -- it's that the entire A.'.A.'. application process is currently broken, and has been for at least 6-8 months.

[Luce]

861 7:7

If a mod sees this, thread can be locked.