Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Freya » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:46 pm

I find some material by Denning and Phillips to be "new-agey", lacking substance, and their explanation of the qabalah to be quite sketchy, compared to other authors... but that's just me. I prefer Dion Fortune, Butler and Crowley's writings (and HP Blavatsky), and to what has been recently published by the OAS. It seems to me they are very different from the GD and AA....the SOL appear to me to be closer to those systems than the OAS.... but I may be wrong
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Tony DeLuce » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:02 pm

Check out their five volume ( I believe now in 3 paperbacks ) Magical Philosophy - it is excellent. The "guide to" books I have seen do appear to be sort of flakey..

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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Hermes » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:42 pm

danica wrote:
Frater Horus wrote:
For me, AA/AS may be of best use after adepthood.


This actually does not make any sense. Because, first: the AA system is specifically designed to get a person to that "goal" (the Next Step for humanity) - that is, at least for all those people who are not "there" yet :D ; and second, because after you have reached adepthood, you actually do not need any system to "guide" you further - you have the direct conscious connection with your Angel (I'm not saying it's not good, or not preferred, to work within a system, I'm only saying that it is not necessary).


O Mistress Danica, whip me, whip me, i'm such a naughty student. :D

Yes those systems are designed to get to that "goal" but so are the eastern ones ! :) An adept yogi or taoist is as much an adept as an AA/AS one.

I see the point of "not needing a system" past adepthood(at least in theory) but if it is just to attain mystical achievement up to Tiphareth in the fastest way possible for most people possible i see straight eastern systems as much more direct. They cover all three pillars more than enough, in a simpler way. They have their magick and philosophy too, not only meditation. AA and AS on the other hand have the particularity of covering with precision all three pillars past adepthood, and providing much more refined magick(is it really useful before adepthood...?) which i'm not aware of similar thing in the eastern systems.

If you were to write a 300 page book concerning how to get to adepthood, what would you put inside? Would you put elaborate qabalah and magick of all imaginable refinements and art, or the most very basics in most simple, functional ways and aplications, with every practicle detail so it can be perfected by anyone of enough potential? On the other hand, if you were to write a thesis for 7=4, there will be a need for refinements and artistic power as well

Within the three thelemic systems designed by Crowley, we could say(maybe?) EGC material is "enough" to become an Adept, OTO enough to Geburah, and AA contains syllabus for Exemptus and more. :alien: But if in a system it contains stuff for Exemptus and more, there are many chances earlier stuff are to some degree related already. On the contrary if a system focus up to adepthood, it is as such(excluding other factors) much more direct for that specific goal.

With the new aeon the old systems went a world down. Thus only new aeon systems(formal or informal) can make one cross the abyss now. But the systems which made one cross the abyss before can now make one an adept, just like those which made adepts before can make zelatores now. And they even might be optimal for that for anything not directly serving a goal might go against it. How does this sound? :)
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Hermes » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:56 pm

Freya wrote:I find some material by Denning and Phillips to be "new-agey", lacking substance


How do you find Taoist classics? :) This i quoted from you seems as a compliment to me :lol: Not as such, but what it brings when i try to make correspond AS books and "new agey_lacking substance". My intuition says "its true ! but in a good/ the taoist way". There is indeed somekind of vacuity in those books :D I think it shows there are not only good adepts but also good pedagogs and writers. They make the material feel "light" but i think it is not in any way. It's the way of writing that may produce the effect.
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby danica » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:01 am

Frater Horus wrote:
O Mistress Danica, whip me, whip me, i'm such a naughty student. :D



I prefer gentle touch and caress :D
(BTW, regarding whipping, have you seen Trier's "Nymphomaniac"?)

...
How does this sound?


Like a lot of theorizing :D
"Adephood" by which system's definition?
AA is not a social club; if one wants to joint, regardless of his/her actual spiritual development thus far, one goes from the beginning, that is - goes through the system step by step. The method of science, ya know.
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Freya » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:23 am

Thanks Tony, the material I read so far wasn't very good in my opinion, but that's just me. They also advise the use of planetary hours which, IMO, is not to be followed.... I find Taoist teachings very good, but I do not expect from an Eastern system to teach in the same way as a Western one. This is just my opinion, and it is purely academic (I am comparing the substance of their writings to Crowley's), and it is without prejudice. I am sure that all of Denning and Phillips books will be (and already have been) useful for many people.
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Hermes » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:52 pm

danica wrote:
Frater Horus wrote:O Mistress Danica, whip me, whip me, i'm such a naughty student. :D

I prefer gentle touch and caress :D
(BTW, regarding whipping, have you seen Trier's "Nymphomaniac"?)

...How does this sound?

Like a lot of theorizing :D
"Adephood" by which system's definition?
AA is not a social club; if one wants to joint, regardless of his/her actual spiritual development thus far, one goes from the beginning, that is - goes through the system step by step. The method of science, ya know.

Let there be gentleness then :)

I'll look the movie

"Adepthood" by my own secret system's definition.

Thou are against all social clubs, hippies, cowards and mediocrities O my chosen ! :lol:

Let there be caress :angel:
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Hermes » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:32 am

What could be interesting is some kind of 777 dedicated to initiatic systems, their correspondances and interactions :D

Any one heard of such book?

Or maybe someone here would like to write it ! :angel:
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Faust » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:48 pm

Freya wrote:I find some material by Denning and Phillips to be "new-agey",

I was very annoyed by that until I realized that among the new age stuff there was some hardcore magick tech. It still annoys me, but at least I do have some fun with the tech.
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Freya » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:59 am

It wasn't my intention to annoy anyone, nor it is my intention now, it is only my opinion.
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Takamba » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:11 am

I know there's fluff material everywhere you look. I know also there are children camping in the wilderness when I go out and do my serious hermitage. What really annoys me is the people who feel superior about themselves by labeling things "newagey" as if the things so labelled actually cared what you think.
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Freya » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:39 am

I am entitled to my opinions, just as you are entitled to yours. I have written my opinions without prejudice, and they are not personal. I cannot control the emotional reactions of others, nor is it my concern to do so. I am not interested neither in people caring about what I think, if it is me you allude to under the term "people", nor in feeling superior. I assume this comment was not meant personally as you have no personal knowledge of me, so you cannot possibly know how I feel about myself. What I said was a personal opinion on what I believe is the quality of some Denning and Phillips writings compared to Crowley's. It is not a personal attack on anybody, merely my views on some of the work that I have personally read. Having made it abundantly clear what my position is in this matter, I find it futile to continue this conversation if it is taken out of context and made it about personal character.
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:02 am

In case it helps clear things up... (Filter out the opinion portions as opinion. They're padding so I can get to the relevant fact or two.)

D&P's primary series on Aurum Solis (5 volumes hard cover, now 3 volumes paper) are phenomenal, an apex of magical writing of the last half century. Some of their other books, such as that on magical self-defense, are of a similar caliber.

However, as part of their... relationship... with Llewellyn, they were asked to pop out a few pop books along the way. I doubt this was ever in the form of "write this pablum, or we won't publish your other stuff;" however, it did seem at the time (to me, and to a couple of people who knew them better than I) that there was a bit of "house production staff writer" aspect to the relationship. This also popularized the D&P brand, of course.

Even in these pablumish works, they put an enormous amount of solid information - some of it overt, some of it snuck in so you didn't necessarily know you were getting the jewels while scrounging for acorns. But you end up going home with a pocket of jewels.

I don't like all their stuff. But I adore them per se, and utterly adore their best stuff, and very much like a lot of the rest.
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Re: Aurum Solis, Servants of Light, and filling the GD-AA gap

Postby Faust » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:00 pm

Sorry Freya, I was not clear, I think that their new-age style annoying, not your opinion.
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