Brother Proserpinus and the Angel

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Brother Proserpinus and the Angel

Postby sk4p » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:46 am

(This is primarily addressed to Jim because it was his working, of course, but I'd welcome insights from others too. And I apologize for the extraordinary long-windedness of my questions, but I want to make sure I don't offend and that I make it clear I've read the text and considered it.)

Jim,

I got Pearls of Wisdom the other day* and may I say, my mind is already blown. Best money I've shelled out for any book on spirituality in recent memory. I had a couple more questions about your HGA working, besides ones I've asked about the HGA in general recently. Obviously I understand if either of these things is too personal for you to be comfortable sharing, in which case, just accept that someone else is benefiting from your Work and move on. ;)

1. (As I read this first statement, it sounds possibly rude, and I don't intend that at all, so please bear with me ...) "You make it look so easy."

You were clearly going through a hell of a lot of personal ups and downs of the greatest magnitude. I can only imagine how difficult that was.

But, when I look at the details you provide of the "formal" magical process - doing the ritual ש and the Phoenix version of the Pentagram - and occasionally missing ש on some nights (the book's not handy as I'm writing this from work, so I can't cite a specific number) that weren't Saturdays, I go, "Wow, this is way lighter than Liber VIII and its three hours of prayer each day and then the seven more at the end."

Now of course you note in your introductory notes, you had your law practice to tend to, etc. and so you couldn't do the 7+3 hours/day week. But you only prolong the Operation from 78 days (the HGA shows up on day 78 according to VIII though there's more stuff on later days) to 93/94 days.

It feels like you're not "making up" for not doing all those extra hours of prayer by making the Operation significantly longer. Yet you succeeded! So what's the secret? Or did the ritual ש actually involve ~3 hours of energized enthusiasm per night?

Were you constantly "inflaming thyself in prayer" pretty much at all other hours of the day as well? If so, and that worked for you, why does VIII recommend so much more "formal" time spent instead of just saying to do that? Was it the psychological stress of your immense personal ups and downs? Was it just years and years of good training in advance? Was it just something about your relationship with Ψ which was just ready to be consummated? All of the above? :)

2. This may seem an oddly mundane question for such a key event in one's life, or perhaps too intimate, but: After K&C, is the Angel wont to advise one about "mundane" matters? "Hey, we should diet." "Hey, we should exercise." "Hey, that person we're thinking about asking out on a date? We shouldn't do that."



*I got the book via Amazon, which reminds me: is it more money/quicker for you that one buy direct from thelema.org instead? If so I'll keep that in mind in future, but I wanted to see the Proserpinus record quickly as I expected it to be (and it is) informative for my own work.
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Re: Brother Proserpinus and the Angel

Postby Jim Eshelman » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:34 pm

sk4p wrote:It feels like you're not "making up" for not doing all those extra hours of prayer by making the Operation significantly longer. Yet you succeeded! So what's the secret? Or did the ritual ש actually involve ~3 hours of energized enthusiasm per night?

Everyone's process is individual. There is nothing magical (pardon the pun) about the exact number of hours etc. If there is a "secret" that's anything other this, it would be in the preparation. First of all, I was a Dominus Liminis who passed all aspects of that and was formally advanced to Adeptus Minor. While the formality obviously doesn't matter, two things here do matter. (1) I was ready - on the cusp - hardly starting from zero. (2) The Angel was an active collaborator in creating the program.

I've seen various people attempt very formal HGA programmed as beginners or mid-level. I've always felt the main "secret" isn't a secret at all - it's just to go step by step to the formal known-to-work system up to the place where this is the immediate Next Step, the task of the current grade. The mature Dominos Liminis will need very little outside assistance, and all the years of working E & O and all the individual tasks will have let one know pretty thoroughly what does and doesn't work for one.

Were you constantly "inflaming thyself in prayer" pretty much at all other hours of the day as well?

"Constantly" is definitely overplaying it. I was, though, "in the process" more or less around the clock, constantly thinking about it, involved, streaming information, intuition working overtime on its own. (That's what "just going about my life" looked like.)

2. This may seem an oddly mundane question for such a key event in one's life, or perhaps too intimate, but: After K&C, is the Angel wont to advise one about "mundane" matters? "Hey, we should diet." "Hey, we should exercise." "Hey, that person we're thinking about asking out on a date? We shouldn't do that."

I can't speak of others' experience (except where they've spoken to me about it), so mostly you'll just get my experience. It's a surprisingly difficult question to answer simply, though. It's not a yes/no or even "sorta." I think I would say that when one's Center abides in the center of the Angel, one becomes progressively attuned to the Angelo's Word (more then words).When there is no need for a direct intervention, the process looks, most of the time, like making good choices.

*I got the book via Amazon, which reminds me: is it more money/quicker for you that one buy direct from thelema.org instead? If so I'll keep that in mind in future, but I wanted to see the Proserpinus record quickly as I expected it to be (and it is) informative for my own work.

Thanks for buying the book ;) I'm glad you're enjoying it. Often, Amazon has significant price reductions that COT can't match so, in that sense, it's probably cheaper to buy from them most of the time. (Amazon "eats" its price reductions much of the time, using them to stir activity.) OTOH, if you don't have a Prime Account, this is partly leveled because we pay postage. Also, we end up making a little more if you buy it directly from us, so if the price difference doesn't matter much to you, it's one way to effectively make a donation to our work. (Well, of course, you could get the cheaper price elsewhere and then still donate to us directly, to get your tax deduction :D).
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in L.V.X.,
Jim Eshelman
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"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
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Re: Brother Proserpinus and the Angel

Postby sk4p » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:53 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:I've seen various people attempt very formal HGA programmed as beginners or mid-level.

I hope some have succeeded! ;)

I've always felt the main "secret" isn't a secret at all - it's just to go step by step to the formal known-to-work system up to the place where this is the immediate Next Step, the task of the current grade. The mature Dominos Liminis will need very little outside assistance, and all the years of working E & O and all the individual tasks will have let one know pretty thoroughly what does and doesn't work for one.

That makes sense.

I can't speak of others' experience (except where they've spoken to me about it), so mostly you'll just get my experience. It's a surprisingly difficult question to answer simply, though. It's not a yes/no or even "sorta." I think I would say that when one's Center abides in the center of the Angel, one becomes progressively attuned to the Angelo's Word (more then words).When there is no need for a direct intervention, the process looks, most of the time, like making good choices.

So it's very intuitional, just ... better intuition? :)

OTOH, if you don't have a Prime Account, this is partly leveled because we pay postage.

We do have Prime in my household. The price difference doesn't matter much to me (my wife and I are fortunately comfortable), so I'll buy from you in future when possible. In this particular case, well ... it's hardly difficult to infer from the questions I've been asking what Operation I'm getting rolling. So you can see why when I suddenly realized there was so much more Bro. P. record in the book, I said "Okay, I need this, and I need it now," time being of the essence. (I also acquired The Mystical and Magical System from Amazon a few months back ... replacing the copy that an ex-lover never returned. ;)

(The chapter on the Star Sapphire, though? Mind. Blown. Here I've been going with the common "it's for that other famous 'secret' of that other famous society" assumption all along. Instead, smart money says it's going to be a part of my daily work in the coming months ...)
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Re: Brother Proserpinus and the Angel

Postby seekinghga » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:40 pm

sk4p wrote:So it's very intuitional, just ... better intuition? :)

What will gain intuition? What aspect seeks to gain "better intuition?"
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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