The Abyss: A star is "cast forth"

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The Abyss: A star is "cast forth"

Postby sk4p » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:37 am

Crowley in One Star In Sight mentions that he was cast forth from the Abyss into the sphere of Jupiter, and that Achad was cast forth into the sphere of the Elements. And Jim in the Proserpinus record mentions that he was told by his Angel which sphere he would be cast into (and despite curiosity, I won't ask, because I assume he wouldn't have redacted the sphere if he wanted us to know :)

Things I wonder about this, which I welcome discussion on:

1. I've seen one recent writer refer to this as basically the Boddhisattva vow, returning to the world to help mankind. That seems to make sense. Any disagreement?

2. The character of the sphere in question would seem to indicate the Master's "role" now that he lacks Ego. Jupiter would be Exempt Adept, leader of a school of thought, and that would certainly seem to fit Crowley, yes. But what about the sphere of the Elements for Achad? OSIS was written in An xvii (about 1921), so the split hadn't fully manifested yet, if at all. So I don't think this is some veiled reference to Achad being a Black Brother; yet the sphere of the Elements is in some sense where we all live, so I'm confused by it.

3. Given the nature of being a Boddhisattva, I would think an awful lot of the forth-cast stars would wind up in Jupiter as Crowley did, no? I guess most of the other spheres would be people working without ego, without attachment, and thus probably much more "behind the scenes" and not being noticed. Any thoughts?

I ask since I'm about to come back from the Abyss myself and want to know where to land *huge wink* No, I'm thankfully nowhere near those concerns yet; just learning.
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Re: The Abyss: A star is "cast forth"

Postby Frater INRI » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:26 am

Good questions.

Jim?
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Re: The Abyss: A star is "cast forth"

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:56 am

sk4p wrote:1. I've seen one recent writer refer to this as basically the Boddhisattva vow, returning to the world to help mankind. That seems to make sense. Any disagreement?

Disagree, for a couple of reasons.

First, at best, calling it "basically" the Bodhisattva vow is too narrow and specific. Nothing here (for example) speaks of a commitment to continue reincarnating continually until the whole species is liberated. I've said in M&MAA that there sure seems a tendency of 7=4s to take that vow, but it's not a rule (unless an unwritten "rule" nature, but I doubt it). So... even if the analogy is roughly close, I think it's too specific.

Second, I question the whole idea of "motive" here. The Master doesn't do it "because" X or Y.

2. The character of the sphere in question would seem to indicate the Master's "role" now that he lacks Ego.

The Master is not without ego, but more truly "has" ego in the way that he has a warm winter coat or a pet or a car. The slough (I suppose literally a Q'lippah) of what had been the old binding, defining skandas etc., hopefully has been built really well so that it continues to be useful, and it's going to be / act / move consistent with its actual general nature.
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Re: The Abyss: A star is "cast forth"

Postby sk4p » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:19 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
sk4p wrote:Second, I question the whole idea of "motive" here. The Master doesn't do it "because" X or Y.

More accurate, then, to say "this is simply how it works in nature", that a Master is cast forth, rather than through any particular "choice"?

The Master is not without ego, but more truly "has" ego in the way that he has a warm winter coat or a pet or a car.

Yeah, almost as soon as I clicked submit on the "no Ego" bit, I thought "way to oversimplify, Shawn." :)

But in general, is it reasonably accurate simply to say that the cast-forth sphere is just the manifestation of the Master's True Will (i.e. to teach a school of thought -> Chesed, to do karma yoga -> Geburah, to do creative/Yetziratic things -> Yesod), etc.?

If so, I'm still confused what Achad's "sphere of the elements" would be; that would be Malkuth, and every incarnate being is operating in that sphere already, no? I'm not sure how that would be distinct from any other incarnate Master. (We can argue that Achad became a Black Brother and thus wasn't actually cast forth as a Star at all, but at the time OSIS was written, I'm trying to figure out what A.C. had in mind.)
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Re: The Abyss: A star is "cast forth"

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:40 am

sk4p wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:
sk4p wrote:Second, I question the whole idea of "motive" here. The Master doesn't do it "because" X or Y.

More accurate, then, to say "this is simply how it works in nature", that a Master is cast forth, rather than through any particular "choice"?

Yes. Cast back implies an involuntary event (in the usual sense of "involuntary").

But in general, is it reasonably accurate simply to say that the cast-forth sphere is just the manifestation of the Master's True Will

Yes, that particular level of expression which is distinctive to a particular incarnation. I'm serious about calling it slough or Q'lippah, it's the nested skandas or woven illusion that there is a coherent being of a particular type, from which the Master has 'escaped' - it settles into going its own most natural way (initially with almost no intervention of the Master that previously mistook itself for the yarn ball, until new puppet strings are put in place and there is an actual need to intervene).

Notice I didn't comment on your particular suggestions for each, just on your core understanding, which I think is solid. On particulars, I was particularly thrown by the suggestion that Chesed's inherent expression is Karma Yoga, which I find to be almost the whole of the work of G'vurah. There's an article on that topic in Pearls.

If so, I'm still confused what Achad's "sphere of the elements" would be; that would be Malkuth, and every incarnate being is operating in that sphere already, no?

By definition, yeah. For Achad? I dunno, I never cared enough to think it through. AC's first intimation of this was Achad's claim to have reached Kether, and AC though 1=10 was being mistaken for 10=1. There's also the persistent doubt (at least in AC's mind at the time) of whether Achad actually crossed the Abyss - he was only formally a 2=9 when he undertook it so, as well, Malkuth was the last sphere in which we have confirmation that he perfected the Work. The nature of that work could be so many things - not my work, not my understanding :) But, to make up examples not particularly rooted in any knowledge of his life, it could have been a mission to bring teachings related to the body, or specifically to accomplish something in the field of action - a lower octave of Karma Yoga - or to do personal work and bring teaching related to the phenomena of forming components and integrating them, of being divided for love's sake to set up the coagula - or all sorts of other things.
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Re: The Abyss: A star is "cast forth"

Postby Starry Soul » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:47 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:On particulars, I was particularly thrown by the suggestion that Chesed's inherent expression is Karma Yoga, which I find to be almost the whole of the work of G'vurah.

That's what he said. (And that Chesed's is "to teach a school of thought.") I misunderstood it at first too.
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Re: The Abyss: A star is "cast forth"

Postby sk4p » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:40 am

On particulars, I was particularly thrown by the suggestion that Chesed's inherent expression is Karma Yoga, which I find to be almost the whole of the work of G'vurah. There's an article on that topic in Pearls.


Oops. I see that my formatting above was unclear. I should have put in more linefeeds; then you would have seen:

i.e.
to teach a school of thought -> Chesed,
to do karma yoga -> Geburah,
to do creative/Yetziratic things -> Yesod,
etc.?

There's also the persistent doubt (at least in AC's mind at the time) of whether Achad actually crossed the Abyss - he was only formally a 2=9 when he undertook it so, as well, Malkuth was the last sphere in which we have confirmation that he perfected the Work.


I've always had a strong interest in Achad and trying to learn from his mistakes. :)

But, to make up examples not particularly rooted in any knowledge of his life, it could have been a mission to bring teachings related to the body, or specifically to accomplish something in the field of action - a lower octave of Karma Yoga - or to do personal work and bring teaching related to the phenomena of forming components and integrating them, of being divided for love's sake to set up the coagula - or all sorts of other things.


Mmm, okay, that makes sense. Thanks for being patient with my line of questioning. :)
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