The making of a probationers robe.

[Christeos Luciftias]

I heard something similar about the Probationers robe.
I was informed categorically that if my Probationers robe did not conform to some secret design that the teller would not disclose then the the lineage was not genuine.
To me this sounds like a lot of B******t but some people take these things very seriously.
as far as I am concerned the robe designs from liber vesta would be sufficient, otherwise why would they be in an official libri of the A.'.A.'.?

[Jim Eshelman]

It isn't an official liber of A.'.A.'.. Liber Vesta didn't exist until a few years ago. It is a new document prepared by its publishers.

I believe it was created sincerely, from the best information its authors could find at the time. However, either this was only briefly correct, or at least Crowley significantly changed it in the 20 years following. I base this on a page Israel Regardie allowed me to copy, which he had typed for Crowley while serving as his secretary.

However, for the Probationer's robe, there has never been any doubt - for that one, Liber Vesta and my list from Regardie and remarks in Liber VIII all agree. I wouldn't trust anyone claiming a secret esoteric version of it that differs from this one design.

PS - Picking Crowley's Adeptus Minor motto for your online handle?

[Christeos Luciftias]

I didnt know that vespa was a recent addition, thanks for the info.
I got the online handle from J D Gunthers book, once I looked it up and found out what it meant I took a liking to it.
I suppose no-one ever used Perdurabo as a handle?:)

as regards to the robe question, I think I'll just ignore the nay sayers and get on with the work, it just annoys me that these little quibbles keep coming up between so called Lineages.

[Zoasa]

I think I asked this question some where else. What type of cloth should be used for the robe?

[Jim Eshelman]

I think I asked this question some where else. What type of cloth should be used for the robe?

There's no absolute requirement. Traditionally, magical robes have been made from linen or silk, but those often prove impractical.

From a practical angle, a light-weight wool-cotton blend is very nice, wears well, etc.

[Zoasa]

I think I asked this question some where else. What type of cloth should be used for the robe?

There's no absolute requirement. Traditionally, magical robes have been made from linen or silk, but those often prove impractical.

From a practical angle, a light-weight wool-cotton blend is very nice, wears well, etc.

I appreciate this information… as for no absolute requirement does that mean I can use anything for the gold, pentacle and hexagram … like shiny material?

[Jim Eshelman]

I think I asked this question some where else. What type of cloth should be used for the robe?

There's no absolute requirement. Traditionally, magical robes have been made from linen or silk, but those often prove impractical.

From a practical angle, a light-weight wool-cotton blend is very nice, wears well, etc.

I appreciate this information… as for no absolute requirement does that mean I can use anything for the gold, pentacle and hexagram … like shiny material?

The gold braid usually would be metallic (though some choose a nonmetallic gold ribbon or braid). The pentagram and hexagram... there's no exact specification. (Vivid colors are usually thought desirable, so felt is often used.) BTW I assume you know that several pictures of the Probationer's robe survive from a hundred years ago.

[Zoasa]

Thanks Much

[AEternitas1]

It doesn't make sense to me that the design of the robe would have a blind in it. Do people think this is a Crowley blind or a modern blind? I dont get it. Crowley's blinds served the purpose of making you think where they were presented as riddles in his writing, I don't see why he would intentionally have his probationers dressed in the wrong attire. Thats about as weak an argument as Skinner saying that the Golden Dawn atrributions of the elemental tools was a blind on their part. Why would they have their adepts making the tools in the wrong manner?
Sometimes it seems like people just want to come off as vague as possible so people believe they know some real worthwhile secrets. A secret robe design doesn't seem like a real worthwhile secret to me and doesn't mean a whole lot.
Jim, thanks for the simple as hell how to robe making instructions, I may do that, but fold the material in half again and measure it from one half of my body so that I can get each side symmetrical. I've wanted a robe for a long time, the only instructions I've seen for one came from those goofballs the Ciciero's and it seemed overly complex and ones I've seen online are way too spendy, even for a nice ceremonial robe.
Now I need to figure out a way to make a nice big hood for it too.

[Jim Eshelman]

For the hood, use two of the four triangles that you cut from under the arms.

[__THE_HERMIT__]

Just curious has there ever been any distinction between the robes of male and female practitioners?

[Avshalom Binyamin]

From what I have heard, the female's robes generally contain females; and the male's robes generally contain males. But not always.

[Frater MVKDSh]

haha:)

[nashimiron]

It's all a question of proportions.

[sesheta156]

The gold braid usually would be metallic (though some choose a nonmetallic gold ribbon or braid). The pentagram and hexagram... there's no exact specification. (Vivid colors are usually thought desirable, so felt is often used.) BTW I assume you know that several pictures of the Probationer's robe survive from a hundred years ago.

93 - i have *exactly* that ? about what material is used for the pentagram and hexagram... i was thinking satin was in order, but found some of the colors available at the store weren't what i was looking for (in terms of shade). so, your recommendation is FELT?

[Archaeus]

The gold braid usually would be metallic (though some choose a nonmetallic gold ribbon or braid). The pentagram and hexagram... there's no exact specification. (Vivid colors are usually thought desirable, so felt is often used.) BTW I assume you know that several pictures of the Probationer's robe survive from a hundred years ago.

93 - i have *exactly* that ? about what material is used for the pentagram and hexagram... i was thinking satin was in order, but found some of the colors available at the store weren't what i was looking for (in terms of shade). so, your recommendation is FELT?

Actually you can use Red ribbon for the pentagram, red and blue for the hexagram, and the same gold ribbon as you use for the trim can be used to make the Tau cross, that's what I used and the result turned out pretty good.

[Alien696]

There is a problem with felt though.. as when it get's wet it starts to leak it's colour into the surrounding cloth.
We are making a probationer's robe here and we use "band".
Sorry that i don't know the english word.
Oh and i intend to use the names on the sides of the stone on the tau cross in hebrew.
I also am fidding around with the idea of doing pentagrammaton for the pentagram on the front.
Is that ok you guys and gals think?

[Jim Eshelman]

It's no longer an A.'.A.'. Robe if u do that. It's something else.

[Archaeus]

Best to just follow your neophyte's instructions.

If you don't have a neophyte then do as you Will, but as Jim says, it won't be a Probationers robe.

[Alien696]

Ok.

In the end i left things as they are.
without the hebrew symbolism connected to the hexagram or pentagram.
And went with the standard.
But such a standard does not necessarily exist in regards the circle right?

[Jim Eshelman]

You mean your personal magick circle? You can do that however you see fit. (Or not at all. I almost never use a formal circle, other than for very specific types of operations such as evocation.

[Thelemic oz]

Check out
http://www.azothart.com/cgi-bin/main.pl?PAGE=52



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[augur]

I have found it useful to know what I am good at, develop areas where the skills are useful for my life, and employ professionals where neither of those things are true.

Jim's instructions on how to make simple Tau Robe are solid, I have used the methodology. I now pay professionals when there is a need for a Robe.