Golden Dawn Initiaiton

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Postby kuniggety » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:02 am

As far as I know, the Temple of Thelema intiations are based off the Golden Dawn formulae, updated to be align with Thelema. See thelema.org to find out where the temples are.
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:53 am

Correct. Temple of Thelema initiations and other degree ceremonies are based on the same formula underlying the Golden Dawn rituals (the "Cypher Manuscript" formulae). A concise statement is given here:
http://thelema.org/temple_of_thelema/index.html

Contact information is given here:
http://thelema.org/temple_of_thelema/locations.html

If you're still in Eugene, the closest group would be the one in San Francisco.
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Postby deleted » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:25 am

Like your username by the way... Angels are Mathematical. I have a similar concept, I think. Perhaps many more do than I know, but I've never read anything about it personally. Any books or source material for your thoughts, or is it the result of your own conclusions?
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Postby Uni_Verse » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:41 am

I wonder, sometimes, if Angel is suppose to mean Angle...
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Postby jg93 » Thu May 14, 2009 11:50 am

Does anyone have info on these folks?

http://www.esotericgoldendawn.com

There seems to be only a single OTO body within 100 miles of me (Wash, DC), so I'm desperately searching for a deep, meaningful (re)initiation onto 'the path.' I'm open to suggestions, thanks for the help.

Jeff
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu May 14, 2009 11:53 am

jg93 wrote:Does anyone have info on these folks?

http://www.esotericgoldendawn.com

This page alone would be sufficient for me to challenge their legitimacy:
http://www.esotericgoldendawn.com/ouro_ ... ations.htm
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Postby jg93 » Thu May 14, 2009 12:45 pm

Thanks Jim. Wish I still lived out in LA near you!

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Postby Kingsolomon » Sun May 31, 2009 4:15 pm

theres a good golden dawn lineage

http://www.golden-dawn.org


I dont know it's legitimacy David Griffin heads it

he wrote the book The Ritual Magick manual of the golden dawn..

but that book is pretty much plagarized from the orginal Israel Regardie's black golden dawn book

any thoughts on this?
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Postby Kingsolomon » Sun May 31, 2009 4:15 pm

i'm sorry it's

http://www.golden-dawn.com

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Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun May 31, 2009 5:13 pm

Regrettably, I'm not able to recommend anyone affiliate with David G.

I usually do him the courtesy of not saying anything, but this question was asked right here in my own yard, so I'd feel wrong not speaking up.

I'll continue to do him the courtesy of not gong into any details, to take the recommendation or leave it as you see fit.
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Postby Kingsolomon » Sun May 31, 2009 7:32 pm

I've heard some other things about David G..

and Jim, for you to say that, it makes ripples in effect..


I hate to ask why you do not recommend Griffin Golden Dawn.. But it strikes my curiosity..


Some say he is a dangerous man..

some say he is a scam..

but no one elaborates why



I'm dying to know why.. i mean I've also heard great things, which stirkes my curiosity.. people say the same thing about the society ordo templi orientis
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Postby Escarabajo » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:17 am

I checked the site you linked to...

I can only speak for myself but I find it very strange when these groups are trying to "sell" you on anything about themselves. The fact that site says they guarantee attainment, or something like that, seems as if they're selling you a product (i.e. their group membership). I am also turned off by these leaders rattling off lists of "how many groups I'm an initiate of." I have not found any "We are the REAL Golden Dawn TM" organization I've been impressed with at all. They seem screwy to me.

What I end up asking myself is: do they realize they are conning people? If they do, they are really low to prey on spiritual aspiration. If they don't, they must be really delusional. IMHO
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Postby Kingsolomon » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:29 am

93

I 90% agree, i thought the exact same thing and it costed almost 200 to join. so I tried it with 100% moneyback guarantee. and they are not that bad.. I mean depending on where you live they will give initiation all the way to ipissimuss

but i dont know, Thats all I really know.. and they did give me my money back..

GD is just not for me.. thats why you have the temple of thelema
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Postby zeph » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:31 pm

I think their stated ability of initiation to Ipsissmus pretty well says it all.
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Postby oldtaboo » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:14 am

jg93 wrote:Does anyone have info on these folks?

http://www.esotericgoldendawn.com

There seems to be only a single OTO body within 100 miles of me (Wash, DC), so I'm desperately searching for a deep, meaningful (re)initiation onto 'the path.' I'm open to suggestions, thanks for the help.

Jeff

I can help out with info on EOGD (essoteric order of the Golden Dawn formerly known as HOMSI - Hermetic Order of the Morning Star.)

I was once a member in their mother temple in Southern California. I went up through the grades to Theoricus and left at that point. I'll try to keep my post on point and practical... less emotional as it were.

To start with, if you're a Thelemite or interested in Thelema... you'd prob want to look elsewhere, then EOGD. Some Golden Dawn orders are open to you practicing Thelema on your own outside their system - EOGD is NOT one of these orders. I was clearly told by various "adepts" at EOGD not to own any work of Crowley's (unless co-published by Mathers) and I've seen said Adepts also instruct people to destroy or burn their Thoth Decks they owned.

I think a lot of the hostility towards Thelema came from a key Adept there who evidently had a bad experience with a Thelemic order in his youth... What he told me scared me off Thelema for quite some time... but in looking at it rationally I came to find out, his views on Thelema were very colored and mostly wrong. He believed "Do what Thou Wilt" was a license to do whatever you want, and clearly that idea should have been made more clear in reading Crowley's opinion on the matter.

EOGD does perform astral initations. When I served as an officer there, it worked like this: a physical initation is performed, and during that time, they believe the astral image of the candidate not present is also with the ones that are physically present. It seemed logical at the time, but in the end, I later felt it was a good way to get membership up and that was about all.

If you check their own forum on Yahoo Groups (it's linked off their main website) - there's a lot of people posting that they paid their dues/membership fee's and maybe 3-6 months go by without any acknowledgement, nor are any materials sent to them. This was the case when I was a member many years ago, and perisists to this very day.

Lastly, just look up the Grand Imperator's name (He openly discloses his real name, so I'm not giving up any secret info here) Robert Zink. He has a personal website where he sells many CD's and programs. If you check it out that might be the best way to determine if that order is for you or not. Actually - that website appears to be down...

To be fair, when I did confront Robert Zink about the attitude against Thelema in EOGD - he claimed at that time he "had no problems with Thelemites" yet when I was a member, it was EOGD Policy that "No Thelemite could be a member of the EOGD" for fear of polluting the current. perhaps polluting is a strong word, but given the angst I saw against Thelemites there, I think it's a fitting description of how I saw their feelings.

EOGD also gets involved in a lot of 'turf wars' with David Griffin and vice versa.

They do have some great magicians in their order. I've met some amazing people thre, despite the problems. This could perhaps be said of anything. A great magician might show up in the oddest of places.

Other Orders:
The order I dont think was mentioned yet, is the Golden Dawn order run by Pat Zalewiski. Pat is a published author, so you can typically find his books in a variety of bookstores, to get an idea for their take on things. While I disagree with Pat in various things, I think (granted I've not been a member, but friends of mine in his order who left others - like Zink's) say that Pat's order is pretty level headed.

another order coming up is R.O.G.D. - I recently contacted them... rogd.org... they openly respect Aliester Crowley (and have Magick Book 4 listed in their recomended reading list). Their website rogd.org doesn't have a lot of info but they do reply to emails in a timely fashion... they also let you taste their teachings without spending any money. They make use of the magical journal and daily adorations/salutations.... From what I gather, I think they are loosely affiliated with Pat Zalewiski - but I can't be certain. I do like their recomended reading list. They have some great authors in there.
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Postby jg93 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:58 am

Thanks oldtaboo!

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Postby atlantis » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:14 pm

I would recommend the SRC+SSA: Sodalitas Rosae Crucis & Solis Alati:
http://www.rosae-crucis.net/

Great Initiatory Order, with a foundation in the system of the Golden Dawn, but of course updated.

The name, Sodalitas RosaeXCrucis & Solis Alati, is actually the name of two Orders; the first, Sodalitas RosaeXCrucis (S.R.C.), translates into “The Secret Society of the Rosy Cross”, and was chosen to represent the Rosicrucian flavour of the magical and mystical processes that lead the candidate to a full contact with his/her Holy Guardian Angel. The second, Sodalitas Solis Alati (S.S.A.), which translates into “The Secret Society of the Winged Sun”, was chosen as to represent the alchemical work that the adept is then ready for. Within these two Orders, the magical work and initiations of the Golden Dawn and Rosae Rubeae et Aurea Crucis, the mystical work and initiations of Gnosticism and Christian Theurgy and the alchemical work of the Royal Path integrates into a coherent system of personal development, where every step follows the next in a clear and consistent way.


I am not interested in the Golden Dawn but of all groups working with that system this is definately the one I hold in highest regard.
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Re: Golden Dawn Initiaiton

Postby Astir » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:03 am

Keep in mind that the SRC+SSA is a schism of Griffin's G.D. and it operates, a bit or less, the same ritualistic way.

If I was to affiliate myself with the G.D., I would be extremely careful about which lineage I would choose. Definitely that wouldn’t be Griffin’s and also not Cicero’s. In Cicero’s, although I do respect him and his initiatory lineage, I know that if you are not a declared Christian, and especially if you are a Thelemite, you are never going to get past that portal grade. Pretty awkward, since Regardie was also a member of the AA and the OTO, and Chic was also in the OTO.

There is the Open Source of the G.D., which is Thelemic. Unfortunately, I don’t know much about these guys, but at a glance they seem decent.
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Re: Golden Dawn Initiaiton

Postby Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:30 am

I don't see that anyone yet has mentioned that Temple of Thelema works on the G.D. pattern.

If one were looking for a pre-Thelemic version, I'd most strongly recommend F.L.O. (Fraternitas L.V.X. Occulta).
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Re: Golden Dawn Initiaiton

Postby frateruranus » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:46 pm

Regardie was a Probationer of the A.'.A.'., not a member. One becomes a member on passing to Neophyte. The Probationer period is one of assessment. Regardie being in the OTO I would like to see some evidence of. My understanding is that he was not a member but because of his position as Crowley's secretary he was privy to certain information. He was not active in Thelema following his seperation with Crowley and into the 70s when he started to become a bit of an occult celebrity when his books were revived by Lewellyn and he started editing Crowley books for them. Some circles say he had little to do with Magic following his seperation from the Stella Matutina but I don't know much about that personally and won't comment. I have a lot of respect for Regardie personally but I doubt the veracity of him being an OTO member, he was an OTO member about as much as Motta was an OTO member.
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Re: Golden Dawn Initiaiton

Postby frateruranus » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:47 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:I don't see that anyone yet has mentioned that Temple of Thelema works on the G.D. pattern.

If one were looking for a pre-Thelemic version, I'd most strongly recommend F.L.O. (Fraternitas L.V.X. Occulta).


I will second this recommendation. Excellent group.
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Re: Golden Dawn Initiaiton

Postby Seth Rah » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:54 am

The first cerimonial admission of the Collegium ad Lux et Nox is also based on the Golden Dawn Neophyte Initiation Ritual. In the last equinox this has been done in Curitiba - PR, Brazil:

http://collegium.org.br/eventos/admissa ... itiba-2010

Moreover, our Chapters execute regularly the Neophyte Ritual, opening and closing their works.

And yes, this is far, far away from you...rs

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Re: Golden Dawn Initiaiton

Postby veritas_in_nox » Tue May 04, 2010 5:06 pm

Is there a difference in syllabus between the A.'.A.'., the Golden Dawn (traditionally), and the Temple of Thelema? Other than the use of Crowley's Libers, of course.
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Re: Golden Dawn Initiaiton

Postby Uni_Verse » Sun May 09, 2010 8:44 am

Is David G. the fellow from the Paris Centennial Celebration video on YouTube?

I had been watching the videos recently...
Their ritual performance was impressive (form wise).
What I did not like is how most of the video was him and a few others trying to say just how legit they are
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Re: Golden Dawn Initiaiton

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sun May 09, 2010 12:50 pm

Yes.

And yes, most of the videos one can see are polished. The word that comes to mind for me is 'glamour' (in the original, magical sense)
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